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[OC3D] AMD's Zen will have a "greater than 40%" IPC improvement over Excavator, says Lisa Su - Page 13

post #121 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

You seem to be missing the point, clearly. Alright, because Intel offers far superior performance per watt and because of a lower manufacturing process they can permit more execution units which logically will consume more space. (Comparing the x architectures at the same manufacturing process). First of all, the jaguar back-end looks empty and secondly it's garbage compared to Core 2.



I mean, there's like nothing in there.




Jaguar is a really bad architecture, it can't even compete with a 11 years old architecture. Also, don't you think 512MB of L2 cache is amazing? It's 256KB per core, FYI.

Do you really think that Jaguar has lower IPC than athlon FX (or Pentium P4)... sure. Yeah core dou is great but core duo is much larger core and made for performance.

I might do some test with core dou.. but as Far as I remember I got little less than 2.0p in cb11.5 at 4.0Ghz while quad jaguar core get 2.05p in cb11.5 @2.05Ghz.
Edited by Themisseble - 1/23/16 at 10:48am
post #122 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

Here is the poly shot for Mullins. The die layout and sizes for Kabini are identical.



When the die size is 107.12mm², you can see even from that picture that the L2 is >13mm² in total.

Give me link or I dont believe! But fine, because you are THE Stilt I believe you. So 6.5mm^2 per Jaguar core with L2$ = 26mm^2 for 4 cores.

DO you have more info about ZEN core? What are your expectations? Sorry if I missed it.
Edited by Themisseble - 1/23/16 at 10:48am
post #123 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Actually not from "The Stilt," but from another person on a different forum doing their own personal arithmetic. Which most likely means if two separate individuals are getting similar results, it probably isn't too far off from being within the realm of possibility.

While I understand that generally speaking AMD doesn't have a good track record regarding honesty when discussing new product launches, we cannot forget the individual who helped them develop this CPU this time around which makes their figures seem much more realistic.

However, I do believe that "Haswell levels of IPC" is not going to get people to switch from Intel (except die hard AMD fans), I do believe it makes the market place more competitive for new buyers by reinvigorating what previously was nonexistent competition. If AMD can offer a true 6 core or true 8 core product for the price of say a consumer i5 or i7 (4C/4T, or 4C/8T) they can really become profitable. Even offering a 4C/8T CPU for the price of an i5 changes the game. However, as I detailed in another thread I believe Intel might challenge this possibility of AMD regaining momentum in the marketplace by bringing back the GHz wars.

Amd has a good track record on anything but bulldozer, and we know why that is.
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post #124 of 841
Lol....so flame discussion guys...
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post #125 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r View Post

Lol....so flame discussion guys...
I know right lol. AMD is actually quite confident about the 40% number, i just hope they are able to get it out sooner rather than later.
Edited by Sin0822 - 1/23/16 at 7:45pm
    
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post #126 of 841

AMD is quite good at stamping their feet and coming up with outstanding things when they are so deep in the [mud] that nobody believes they'll make it out... But the record of the past few years doesn't stand on their side.

   
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post #127 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

AMD is quite good at stamping their feet and coming up with outstanding things when they are so deep in the [mud] that nobody believes they'll make it out... But the record of the past few years doesn't stand on their side.

What stands on their side?
post #128 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

However, I do believe that "Haswell levels of IPC" is not going to get people to switch from Intel (except die hard AMD fans), I do believe it makes the market place more competitive for new buyers by reinvigorating what previously was nonexistent competition. If AMD can offer a true 6 core or true 8 core product for the price of say a consumer i5 or i7 (4C/4T, or 4C/8T) they can really become profitable. Even offering a 4C/8T CPU for the price of an i5 changes the game. However, as I detailed in another thread I believe Intel might challenge this possibility of AMD regaining momentum in the marketplace by bringing back the GHz wars.

If it does actually reach Haswell levels, I'd say it'll recapture maybe 5-10% of the desktop market, mostly from two sources.

1) "Moderate" AMD fans like myself who either bought Intel for a generation or two or have held off buying new CPUs since Vishera. Skylake's performance uplift over Haswell is within the margin of error for many applications and regresses in some areas, so unless Kaby Lake or Cannonlake bring huge improvements, being ~10-15% behind in IPC isn't a huge liability, especially if priced appropriately. It'll be like the Core 2/Nehalem vs. Phenom II days.

2) Zen-based APUs, while coming a bit later, may also be a nice play for HTPCs and all-in-ones that casual consumers make use of. However, AMD may be screwed over by OEMs and Intel's rebates like they usually are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

What stands on their side?

Being backed into a corner brings focus. I think there's an understanding throughout the organization right now that it's either produce or perish. Lisa Su's an engineer instead of a marketing guy like RR was, and she's made pretty good decisions so far: narrowing the strategic focus, splitting off RTG, granting the Zen teams more autonomy in design, so forth.

The problems at AMD are:
1) Complacent middle management who are there because they have seniority, not because they have good ideas.
2) Too many VPs and silos that don't talk to one another; the organization needs to be running lean and mean.
3) A board of directors that fires CEOs before they have a chance to execute their vision (Dirk was about high performance, was replaced with RR who was about cost-cutting and entering new markets, RR was replaced by Lisa, who's again about high performance, etc.)
4) Horrid marketing, although Lisa's improved things a bit by getting rid of Colette LaForce.
Edited by PiOfPie - 1/23/16 at 2:17pm
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post #129 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

What stands on their side?
Jim Keller's design, for one.
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post #130 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

If it does actually reach Haswell levels, I'd say it'll recapture maybe 5-10% of the desktop market, mostly from two sources.

1) "Moderate" AMD fans like myself who either bought Intel for a generation or two or have held off buying new CPUs since Vishera. Skylake's performance uplift over Haswell is within the margin of error for many applications and regresses in some areas, so unless Kaby Lake or Cannonlake bring huge improvements, being ~10-15% behind in IPC isn't a huge liability, especially if priced appropriately. It'll be like the Core 2/Nehalem vs. Phenom II days.

2) Zen-based APUs, while coming a bit later, may also be a nice play for HTPCs and all-in-ones that casual consumers make use of. However, AMD may be screwed over by OEMs and Intel's rebates like they usually are.
Being backed into a corner brings focus. I think there's an understanding throughout the organization right now that it's either produce or perish. Lisa Su's an engineer instead of a marketing guy like RR was, and she's made pretty good decisions so far: narrowing the strategic focus, splitting off RTG, granting the Zen teams more autonomy in design, so forth.

The problems at AMD are:
1) Complacent middle management who are there because they have seniority, not because they have good ideas.
2) Too many VPs and silos that don't talk to one another; the organization needs to be running lean and mean.
3) A board of directors that fires CEOs before they have a chance to execute their vision (Dirk was about high performance, was replaced with RR who was about cost-cutting and entering new markets, RR was replaced by Lisa, who's again about high performance, etc.)
4) Horrid marketing, although Lisa's improved things a bit by getting rid of Colette LaForce.

Too many fingers in the pot.
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