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[OC3D] AMD's Zen will have a "greater than 40%" IPC improvement over Excavator, says Lisa Su - Page 34

post #331 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

I meant FM2+ derp.

Look how fast the FX-8800P benchmarks to the A10-7850k .

https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+A10-7850K+APU&id=2133

https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8800P&id=2567

They are so close to each other and one is tops 35 watt tdp and the other 95 watt tdp.

Its not possible.. if they remove SB from the chip.
post #332 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

Its not possible.. if they remove SB from the chip.

From what other sites said is that it turns off it's SB on the chip and passes it through. They do this so some AM4 boards could supply more additional features than the default.
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post #333 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

Its not possible.. if they remove SB from the chip.

From what other sites said is that it turns off it's SB on the chip and passes it through. They do this so some AM4 boards could supply more additional features than the default.

I don't see why its so hard to concieve that anyway..

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post #334 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

What I'm saying is that often AMD compares IPC according to the stock clocks like they did with their FX series or their APUs. So they'll often compare a stock 2.7ghz processor to a 3.2ghz processor and well the 3.2ghz processor has more IPC. So we don't know if they're comparing IPC by clock for clock or stock for stock.

Is it a stock Excavator desktop IPC at 3.7ghz is 40% slower than a stock Zen processor at 2.7ghz, we don't know how they imply it.

I messaged a representative at AMD I'll fill us in as soon as I get a response.

When they do that they always say it's "x% faster than the previous generation." Here, though, we've had repeated claims of "40% more IPC than Excavator" spelled out for us over and over.

I think AMD is stressing this figure exactly because they don't know what to expect in the clockrate category, which is why we have all been speaking in frequency-neutral terms.

AMD's current FX CPUs come *stock* at nearly 5GHz. There's effectively no chance that Zen will do the same. It will be amazing if AMD pulls off 4GHz stock clock speeds with any headroom remaining.

From a pure performance perspective, Zen could be as little as 20% faster than FX-9590 to as much as 65% faster. I doubt even AMD knows where it will fall with enough confidence to make any claims at this point in time. The exact power draw for the CPU matters in this as well, if they're going to hold hard to the 95W max TDP.
post #335 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

What I'm saying is that often AMD compares IPC according to the stock clocks like they did with their FX series or their APUs. So they'll often compare a stock 2.7ghz processor to a 3.2ghz processor and well the 3.2ghz processor has more IPC. So we don't know if they're comparing IPC by clock for clock or stock for stock.

Is it a stock Excavator desktop IPC at 3.7ghz is 40% slower than a stock Zen processor at 2.7ghz, we don't know how they imply it.

I messaged a representative at AMD I'll fill us in as soon as I get a response.

When they do that they always say it's "x% faster than the previous generation." Here, though, we've had repeated claims of "40% more IPC than Excavator" spelled out for us over and over.

I think AMD is stressing this figure exactly because they don't know what to expect in the clockrate category, which is why we have all been speaking in frequency-neutral terms.

AMD's current FX CPUs come *stock* at nearly 5GHz. There's effectively no chance that Zen will do the same. It will be amazing if AMD pulls off 4GHz stock clock speeds with any headroom remaining.

From a pure performance perspective, Zen could be as little as 20% faster than FX-9590 to as much as 65% faster. I doubt even AMD knows where it will fall with enough confidence to make any claims at this point in time. The exact power draw for the CPU matters in this as well, if they're going to hold hard to the 95W max TDP.

wasn't the 95ww TDP really more of a speculation. Granted I don't doubt Flank3r and who he speaks with however I personally don't think that with the way AMD is pushing.. that that will be the end all .. meaning maybe for Desktop APU but not big boy ZEN
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post #336 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by F3ERS 2 ASH3S View Post

wasn't the 95ww TDP really more of a speculation. Granted I don't doubt Flank3r and who he speaks with however I personally don't think that with the way AMD is pushing.. that that will be the end all .. meaning maybe for Desktop APU but not big boy ZEN

I don't remember where the 95W figure originates. It's become so ingrained into what I know about Zen, that I've just assumed it's true (it is often frequently repeated as gospel by all the rumors sites as well).

I'm highly suspect about the idea that the 95TDP includes 8-core CPUs, though. And if AMD doesn't offer 8-core desktop CPUs, I'll have no use for Zen CPUs at all and will buy into Intel's 2011-v3 platform.
post #337 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3ERS 2 ASH3S View Post

wasn't the 95ww TDP really more of a speculation. Granted I don't doubt Flank3r and who he speaks with however I personally don't think that with the way AMD is pushing.. that that will be the end all .. meaning maybe for Desktop APU but not big boy ZEN

I don't remember where the 95W figure originates. It's become so ingrained into what I know about Zen, that I've just assumed it's true (it is often frequently repeated as gospel by all the rumors sites as well).

I'm highly suspect about the idea that the 95TDP includes 8-core CPUs, though. And if AMD doesn't offer 8-core desktop CPUs, I'll have no use for Zen CPUs at all and will buy into Intel's 2011-v3 platform.

Just sounds off if they are trying to hit the performance crown unless the node for what ever reason allows it... which I doubt even more.
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post #338 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

I don't remember where the 95W figure originates. It's become so ingrained into what I know about Zen, that I've just assumed it's true (it is often frequently repeated as gospel by all the rumors sites as well).

I'm highly suspect about the idea that the 95TDP includes 8-core CPUs, though. And if AMD doesn't offer 8-core desktop CPUs, I'll have no use for Zen CPUs at all and will buy into Intel's 2011-v3 platform.

I can't find any sources to verify the 95W claim with any confidence. Don't forget the i7-6700k is rated 91W TDP, so this claim falls more in line with a 4 core. I don't see why AMD would advertise the power consumption of their highest end chip when speaking in terms of power consumption in an era of low power everything. 125-135W sounds more reasonable to me for an 8 core pulling 3-3.5Ghz but hey, who knows when you're getting an entirely new platform/architecture/node.

People don't seem to have any issue with using or overclocking the 32nm vishera "E" edition even though they are also 95W TDP. It's almost as if we're asking for higher power consumption now? I don't feel like having another 225W overclocked monster again biggrin.gif

I don't care what it's rated for, I care what it can handle biggrin.gif
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post #339 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

I don't remember where the 95W figure originates. It's become so ingrained into what I know about Zen, that I've just assumed it's true (it is often frequently repeated as gospel by all the rumors sites as well).

I'm highly suspect about the idea that the 95TDP includes 8-core CPUs, though. And if AMD doesn't offer 8-core desktop CPUs, I'll have no use for Zen CPUs at all and will buy into Intel's 2011-v3 platform.

I can't find any sources to verify the 95W claim with any confidence. Don't forget the i7-6700k is rated 91W TDP, so this claim falls more in line with a 4 core. I don't see why AMD would advertise the power consumption of their highest end chip when speaking in terms of power consumption in an era of low power everything. 125-135W sounds more reasonable to me for an 8 core pulling 3-3.5Ghz but hey, who knows when you're getting an entirely new platform/architecture/node.

People don't seem to have any issue with using or overclocking the 32nm vishera "E" edition even though they are also 95W TDP. It's almost as if we're asking for higher power consumption now? I don't feel like having another 225W overclocked monster again biggrin.gif

I don't care what it's rated for, I care what it can handle biggrin.gif

No however normally the 125w range is the enthusiest line. that 220w monster was just to pull the lookie what I can do..
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post #340 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by F3ERS 2 ASH3S View Post

No however normally the 125w range is the enthusiest line. that 220w monster was just to pull the lookie what I can do..

Well kind of my point, I had an 8350 which was 125W TDP rated but it ran pulling easily 200+ max. I would gladly have a lower power chip that can still hit high frequency using less power. I think the concern here is that these chips aren't going to scale up too well with more voltage. If the boost in IPC is accurate I'm hoping I can get one to 4.4-4.6 under water, but I'm guessing that's going to be an extreme OC for these.

Either way my next CPU is going to be an 8 core.. 5960x meets my requirements perfectly in every department but price. Sadly I feel pretty confident that level of performance is still going to cost $1000 one year from now sad-smiley-002.gif.
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