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[OC3D] AMD's Zen will have a "greater than 40%" IPC improvement over Excavator, says Lisa Su - Page 51

post #501 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphic View Post

Is this the Flagship Zen FX CPU or the Flagship Zen Opteron?

If it is anything but someones wet dream on paper, then Opteron biggrin.gif
post #502 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

If it is anything but someones wet dream on paper, then Opteron biggrin.gif

Yeah, had a feeling it would be Opteron. But I do hope the Flagship Zen FX is more then just 8core/16threads though. They need to stop trying to match Intel and One-Up them. Since they have the ability to put two Zen processors on a single die, then for their Flagship FX Zen, they should offer something like two 6cores/12theads on a single die, two 8cores/16theads on a single die, two 10cores/20heads on a single die, or two 12cores/24theads on a single die. Of course all fully unlocked and overclockable. I know I would buy one. thumb.gif
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post #503 of 841
amd just stick to gpu, desktop cpu's are just not your thing.....
Just remember all the hype about bulldozer...
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post #504 of 841
Quote:

Originally Posted by doza View Post



amd just stick to gpu, desktop cpu's are just not your thing.....

Just remember all the hype about bulldozer...



 



That is rather a short-sighted view of a long history. Also, it's worth pointing out that while Vishera FX chips aren't world-beaters they are capable enough for the vast majority of users and the fact that AMD made anything out of the sodfest that was Bulldozer speaks to the engineers they've got working there. Bulldozer-to-Vishera was a great example of how AMD's planning and management end were far-removed from reality whilst the practical side managed to somehow keep the company afloat. With management seemingly more in-tune with the concerns of each consumer niche I think it's fair to say the engineering team could deliver some early-ought/late nineties magic. We won't know until it's time but the work @looncraz and others have done is indicating that this time AMD's pulling out the stops on Zen.

     
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post #505 of 841
I am wondering if Zen target is going to be a desktop with with 7 parts. Case, CPU, motherboard, power supply, system cooler, SSD drive and blu-ray drive. If it has 8 gb inside the lid you would only need more for rendering and CAD programs? If that is so look for cases at 1/2 the current mATX size and thinner longer power supplys ? Look something like the 1st gen blu-ray players ? Or just combine it all with a 24 or 27" monitor. Keyboard and mouse not included. I would to have the choice of something, lol
Edited by warpuck - 2/14/16 at 9:29am
post #506 of 841
8 core for desktop.
Probably 600-700$.

I just hope that six core will be cheaper than INTELs six core 5820K.
Good MB at 130-150$ and six core at 350-400$ could make great deal.
post #507 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by doza View Post

amd just stick to gpu, desktop cpu's are just not your thing.....
Just remember all the hype about bulldozer...

Well, there's a distinct different between Zen and Bulldozer: when Bulldozer details began to leak, those of us who model hardware (myself included) began questioning how Bulldozer could ever have higher IPC than K10, let alone match it. When I got the optimization guide, I went round-and-round with JF-AMD telling him there was no way higher IPC would be achievable, but he kept saying it increased. A third more narrow core, using contended-resources, slow caches, and a write-through cache policy could NEVER keep up with a design that averaged a full 2 IPC in the 95% peak utilization, with the odd jump beyond that. That would require 100% efficiency just to match k10's nominal performance, instruction latency improvements notwithstanding.

Now, the very same people (myself included), are trying to figure out how AMD is only getting 40% more performance from Zen with the design details we know. We take what we know of the architecture and start putting in bottlenecks to slow it down to make AMD's 40% claim make sense. I would not be surprised if Zen achieved more than 40% over Excavator. I was not surprised that Bulldozer's performance was sub-par.

For example, if I use K10 cache latencies, Excavator instruction latencies, and assume a nearly unmodified Bulldozer front-end is being used to power SMT, I come up with 52% higher IPC than Excavator. Rumors have it that the caches are much faster than K10 (from AMD patents and white papers, no less, they should roughly match Sandy Bridge caches)... so that would be even better. So, somewhere, there's a bottleneck.. or AMD is intentionally underselling Zen's performance.improvement.

In addition, AMD has said that this is a pure-architectural 40% improvement, which means there are even more factors where higher performance would be expected, such as the 14nm LPP process itself.. and its much faster switching transistors.

As you see, the situation is very different this time around.
post #508 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

8 core for desktop.
Probably 600-700$.

I just hope that six core will be cheaper than INTELs six core 5820K.
Good MB at 130-150$ and six core at 350-400$ could make great deal.

You just nailed what I want. Price wise and part wise ;-)

$150 motherboard, DDR4, ~$350~400 Zen CPU w/ 6+ cores and Haswell-ish IPC and 4GHz+ (overclocked is fine tongue.gif).
post #509 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by doza View Post

amd just stick to gpu, desktop cpu's are just not your thing.....
Just remember all the hype about bulldozer...

AMD or just a name in not designing CPU arhitecture, biggrin.gif CPU arhitecture is product of group people=CPU designers lead by one or two chief CPU designers. wink.gif

- AMD Bulldozer Arhitecture, designed by lost below average CPU designers=CPU team had wandered into a muddy street

- AMD Zen, designed by CPU team under the leadership of legendary CPU designer Jim Keller

AMD Zen does not need any kind of hype, and this is because we all know who is Jim Keller.

Let's say that CPU is a car, desinged by Christian von Koenigsegg and this is the end of story you not need a hype.When Christian designs a car, you now this is a great car, and when Jim Keller +CPU team designs a CPU the conclusion is very clear.biggrin.gif

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post #510 of 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by looncraz View Post

Well, there's a distinct different between Zen and Bulldozer: when Bulldozer details began to leak, those of us who model hardware (myself included) began questioning how Bulldozer could ever have higher IPC than K10, let alone match it. When I got the optimization guide, I went round-and-round with JF-AMD telling him there was no way higher IPC would be achievable, but he kept saying it increased. A third more narrow core, using contended-resources, slow caches, and a write-through cache policy could NEVER keep up with a design that averaged a full 2 IPC in the 95% peak utilization, with the odd jump beyond that. That would require 100% efficiency just to match k10's nominal performance, instruction latency improvements notwithstanding.

Now, the very same people (myself included), are trying to figure out how AMD is only getting 40% more performance from Zen with the design details we know. We take what we know of the architecture and start putting in bottlenecks to slow it down to make AMD's 40% claim make sense. I would not be surprised if Zen achieved more than 40% over Excavator. I was not surprised that Bulldozer's performance was sub-par.

For example, if I use K10 cache latencies, Excavator instruction latencies, and assume a nearly unmodified Bulldozer front-end is being used to power SMT, I come up with 52% higher IPC than Excavator. Rumors have it that the caches are much faster than K10 (from AMD patents and white papers, no less, they should roughly match Sandy Bridge caches)... so that would be even better. So, somewhere, there's a bottleneck.. or AMD is intentionally underselling Zen's performance.improvement.

In addition, AMD has said that this is a pure-architectural 40% improvement, which means there are even more factors where higher performance would be expected, such as the 14nm LPP process itself.. and its much faster switching transistors.

As you see, the situation is very different this time around.
Wouldn't a ~52% IPC increase over Excavator put it right up there next to Broadwell if not playing chicken with Skylake?
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