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[OC3D] Far Cry: Primal and Rise of the Tomb Raider will use Denuvo Anti-Tamper Tech - Page 11  

post #101 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragneel View Post

I don't believe that to be the case. I believe that a part of why they made as many sales as they did despite the game in general being somewhat less well received as W2 was because of their reputation as being PC gamer friendly due to avoiding DRM that many think harms legitimate buyers more than it effects piracy.

Really I think piracy is a much more complicated issue than to say 'oh pirates just want free **** cause they're entitled' or on the other side to outright say that piracy is better for business but it's hard to determine who piracy really affects the most and why it's actually happening or whether or not there may be valid reasons for it when the majority of discussion is just those 2 ends of the argument shouting at each other "you're wrong" "no, you're wrong".

Then there's DRM, some DRM's really have in the past proven to more negatively impact buyers than pirates, let's assume Denuvo is the answer to this, that it's good for the buyer and stops piracy, will that actually drive up sales? Or would people who previously considered pirating it find something else to do?

If they're entitled and just didn't want to pay for it, I think they probably still aren't going to want to pay for it, so they'll find another game.
If they're poor and couldn't pay for it, are they then going to pay for the game at a price that they had already determined they can't afford? No. They'll look for something else to do, and maybe a year or two later some of those people will pay for it during a big sale where they can get it for 1/10th of the original price, hardly making much of an impact on revenue.

I don't know ,W3 is a good game so it would have sold anyway

Who's to say it would not have sold more copies had they used Denuvo ? I think there is a clear case for using it

Denuvo is invisible to the end user and really that is exactly the type of DRM that people want . We don't want DRM that stops you from playing the game you paid for. Denuvo does not stop you from doing exactly that

If people can't afford to pay for games then they should either get more money or find something else to do. Gaming is a luxury after all
post #102 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

I don't know ,W3 is a good game so it would have sold anyway

You were also heavily paying for the distribution of the physical item. And I doubt as many people would've bought the nice looking package, if they didn't get to borrow it from a friend for a week, without having to hand over an entire steam account of games, or the hassle associated.

But yeah I'm not so sure how denuvo works; if there's no login required, then it's fine. If there is a login required, it's downgrading the product.
It also better not discourage reselling.
Paying for licenses that inexplicably cannot be resold just doesn't do it for me. It's a poor business choice to deal in unsellable goods.
Edited by Tivan - 1/25/16 at 5:16am
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post #103 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post


If people can't afford to pay for games then they should either get more money or find something else to do. Gaming is a luxury after all

But that's just the thing isn't it. Removing those people's ability to pirate your game won't increase your sales among that demographic. They will as you say, find something else to do.

"Get more money" is a very simplistic attitude that ignores the reality of the socioeconomic and economic problems facing many countries around the world, and even to a smaller extent in some first world countries, but I'll avoid this topic now because it can quickly devolve into politics.
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post #104 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

You were also heavily paying for the distribution of the physical item. And I doubt as many people would've bought the nice looking package, if they didn't get to borrow it from a friend for a week, without having to hand over an entire steam account of games, or the hassle associated.

But yeah I'm not so sure how denuvo works; if there's no login required, then it's fine. If there is a login required, it's downgrading the product.
It also better not discourage reselling.
Paying for licenses that inexplicably cannot be resold just doesn't do it for me. It's a poor business choice to deal in unsellable goods.

I'd imagine 99% of the W3 sales were digital

There is no denuvo logon either - it's invisible

I agree with you that you should be able to sell your game licenses on - but that is not what this thread is about
post #105 of 278
Does Denuvo cause issues for legit buyers ?

The only comment I've seen on that subject is
Quote:
“CERTAIN FILES OF THE ANTI-TAMPER TECHNOLOGY MAY REMAIN EVEN AFTER THE PRODUCT IS UNINSTALLED FROM YOUR COMPUTER. “

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/far-cry-primal-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-will-be-protected-by-the-denuvo-anti-tamper-tech/
post #106 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragneel View Post

But that's just the thing isn't it. Removing those people's ability to pirate your game won't increase your sales among that demographic. They will as you say, find something else to do.

"Get more money" is a very simplistic attitude that ignores the reality of the socioeconomic and economic problems facing many countries around the world, and even to a smaller extent in some first world countries, but I'll avoid this topic now because it can quickly devolve into politics.

Games are a luxury , just because people can't afford them it does not give them the right to copy them
post #107 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowHardCanItBe View Post

Citation needed.

Google. - Keep in mind when you google that Somali Pirates are actually real life pirates on the real life ocean - "ARRRRR ARRRRRRRRR MAITEY"

Really depends on who you source, to be honest.

http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy-really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/

Freakonmics actually claims it's a 200 billion dollar industry.

http://www.eweek.com/security/microsoft-pirated-software-to-cost-businesses-491-billion-in-2014.html

Eweek claims it's 491 billion.

http://www.itworldcanada.com/article/software-piracy-costs-businesses-114b-idc/47517

Itworld claims it's about 114b.

My estimate of 75b is more realistic, IMO. It's not fear-mongering, it's not going overboard - In fact, I'd say 75b is incredibly conservative when it comes to the global market.

Of that 75b we're talking about Music/Movies/Software - The video gaming section of that pie is incredibly niche compared to the others, especially with Steam allowing refunds...In fact, Steam saw a pretty dramatic sift after they allowed refunds because people now use them as demos...

Historically pirates target DRM-laden product in an effort to "strike back" against the "man" - Thus, we see product specifically from Ubisoft targeted for a reason, mind you...That really hasn't changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by girugamesh View Post

I value my principles first of all. DRM is cancer. With Denuvo you don't effectively own what you bought, this is a basic principle. If you wanna be a good slave boy to corporations like Valve, Ubi and SE, by all means do so.

So Valve makes you a slave by force-authenticating product you should have paid for, in the first place?

That's incredibly narcissistic if I may say so, myself.
post #108 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by girugamesh View Post

I value my principles first of all. DRM is cancer. With Denuvo you don't effectively own what you bought, this is a basic principle. If you wanna be a good slave boy to corporations like Valve, Ubi and SE, by all means do so.

I agree with this, the type of DRM used on any game I consider purchasing greatly affects my decision on how much I feel it's worth. I remember when complete PC games were $40~50 and didn't require an entire network (steam, Uplay. Origin, etc.) just to sign and play a game that you purchased and downloaded. Nowadays you have full $60+ titles and DLC. season passes and micro transactions doubling the price of the base game all on top of needing DRM to play.

I also do not want any unnecessary software installed on my computer other than what is required to run the game, any one that remembers the star force fiasco will understand.

I find it extremely annoying that after you purchase a game on steam and download it that you can't run the game's .exe without first signing into steam, I don't like that kind of control over the things I purchase.

That being said, only game I bought last year full price was Witcher 3 as their no DRM attitude practically sold the game to me on principle alone.
Edited by XAslanX - 1/25/16 at 5:58am
post #109 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Dont try to reason with people under the "wage" issue. It mostly doesnt work here.

Since you are in the EU everyone assumes that you are well off already. While reality is way different and then people resort to piracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

Games are a luxury , just because people can't afford them it does not give them the right to copy them

Exactly. Games are not some kind of right. They are a product to be sold as a luxury item.
 
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post #110 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by XAslanX View Post

I agree with this, the type of DRM used on any game I consider purchasing greatly affects my decision on how much I feel it's worth. I remember when complete PC games were $40~50 and didn't require an entire network (steam, Uplay. Origin, etc.) just to sign and play a game that you purchased and downloaded. Nowadays you have full $60+ titles and DLC. season passes and micro transactions doubling the price of the base game all on top of needing DRM to play.

I also do not want any unnecessary software installed on my computer other than what is required to run the game, any one that remembers the star force fiasco will understand.

I find it extremely annoying that after you purchase a game on steam and download it that you can't run the game's .exe without first signing into steam, I don't like that kind of control over the things I purchase.

So, even though inflation has effected every other industry in the world and $60 in 1990 is now $90 in 2015, you believe that the value of said products has decreased and now have an inherent value of $40-$50.? Seriously?

Of course you have $60 titles...Again, inflation...$30 DCL's again, inflation...Welcome to the market.

If you don't want DLC's drop $100 (Which is the $60 after inflation) and be done with it - That's what MOST people actually do.

That being said, there isn't unnecessary software, there's an authenticator...And when you REMOVE the game, the Serial # stays in an authentication file...That's ALL that tays.

Also you can run the game's .exe without first signing into Steam - Run Steam in offline mode...Duh.
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