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[OC3D] Far Cry: Primal and Rise of the Tomb Raider will use Denuvo Anti-Tamper Tech - Page 15  

post #141 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I'd really like to understand the logic behind "stopping piracy will boost sales".

Maybe just maybe people will want to play games so much they are forced to buy but then again most o PC gamer user base aka 90% play some sort of Free to Play game or cheap game like CSGO. Most AAA games for most PC gamers are fillers. I lay Dota 2 80% of my time in PC. If I cant play AAA $60 games I am fine really.
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post #142 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatolisk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

I disagree with the second. This is not because of being poor. People from all ranges pirate movies, tv shows, games, music. It really has nothing to do with just being poor.
It's to some point. If an average game cost around 200$ in USA, which is similar to what relative cost is in some countries, you would see a good increase in piracy.

Personally if I didn't pirate as a kid I wouldn't be buying games now.
^^

I bet it'll be on every torrent website inside of a week. The only Ubisoft affiliated game I'd ever consider buying is Rainbow 6 Siege, and that's only because it's multiplayer.

There are many factors which influence piracy. Even if there was a "perfect" marketplace and solution and everything possible. Even if EVERY person who couldn't afford the game was GIVEN it for free!

You'd still have pirates. Some people simply will not pay. It could be $1 for a game and they would not pay. If torrents and all alternative methods of obtaining the game were completly shut down and blocked, then you get a fraction of those people to buy it. However that's not possible. Tryingto do that only hurts because it causes disruption for other customers. Many people say it costs money to the company in the long run. I agree. By implementing advanced DRM, the week or so lead time the game gets to sell without piracy as an option will have a few effects. A group of people will not want to wait, and will buy it. Another group of people know as the "try before you buy" type will not buy it, and may either lose interest or wait until it is piratable to pirate it and then try it before making up their mind whether to buy it or not.

There's a lot more to it but I don't think the advanced DRM nets higher profits in total. They've also failed to factor in how the issues they know will occur with denuvo are going to affect their reputation for future titles! All in all it appears there are more cons with heavier weighting on the denuvo side. '

Conclusion: DRM free would make more money.
post #143 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

GoLDii3, if you consider a request for common civility to be an attempt at censorship, I recommend we stop this discussion now.

You never made any claims. This conversation started in post 37, with you asking me to support my claim. I have. You continue to misrepresent my evidence.

It doesn't matter what country you take a poll in. Once you have a statistically relevant sample size, it is valid. You don't need to randomize your country or anything like that. You just need to poll enough people. I feel you really need some statistics classes, because your claim of exceptionalism due to regional influence just is not backed up by the math or science.

I still feel you are being intentionally disingenuous with your claims here. The "picture" you claim supports your position does not, as evidenced by the sentence immediately prior, which I feel is why you cut it.

"However; here’s where the claim that PC gamers are pirating their games at 90% rates begins to fall apart."

The article proceeds to pick apart the claims you seem to think it is making.

Kotaku is not written in Swiss. Why can't you seem to understand that?

I apologize if I missed an edit somewhere, I did try to extricate our conversation from your multi-person reply.
No you did not. Your claims aren't supported not even a bit. All you got is that article done on Switzerland and Netherlands. And it's not relevant enough to generalize 190 countries.

The intel article you posted does not offer anything meaningful besides disproving Ubisoft's claim that 90% of PC gamers are pirates.

This is what the sentence you're saying im cutting out says:

"However; here’s where the claim that PC gamers are pirating their games at 90% rates begins to fall apart."



"To put this into an even broader context. Estimated Global PC Sales(Retail/Digital)/F2P-Users/Subs/SNS-Games for 2011 is as follows: ◦Between 240-310 million units"

"Yet.. this isn’t feasible since again as we noted earlier in order to see those kinds of numbers pirated you’d have to make the top 5 list on the TorrentFreak list. Which Ubisoft doesn’t."

The only claim the article is picking apart is the one made by Ubisoft,using sales information and the TorrentFreak's mentioned article.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
"Why the flare up? Ubisoft’s CEO (Yves Guillemot) recently made the following statement that created quite a stir and put a spotlight on this issue that’s been picked up all over the news.

“On PC it’s only around five to seven per cent of the players who pay for F2P, but normally on PC it’s only about five to seven per cent who pay anyway, the rest is pirated. It’s around a 93-95 per cent piracy rate, so it ends up at about the same percentage. The revenue we get from the people who play is more long term, so we can continue to bring content.”

But whatever fits your agenda i guess,you don't need a genius to know piracy creates monetary loss,and your attempted justification of "but it's not a significant monetary loss" really is laughable.

Does not matter if it is or it is not,it is still a monetary loss wich should not happen in the first place.
Edited by GoLDii3 - 1/25/16 at 3:35pm
post #144 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I'd really like to understand the logic behind "stopping piracy will boost sales".

Yes, it means broke people who were never going to buy your $60 game anyway, won't be able to play.
post #145 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

No you did not. Your claims aren't supported not even a bit. All you got is that article done on Switzerland and Netherlands. And yes it does matter. It's not relevant enough to generalize 190 countries.

The intel article you posted does not offer anything meaningful besides disproving Ubisoft's claim that 90% of PC gamers are pirates.

This is what the sentence you're saying im cutting out says:

"However; here’s where the claim that PC gamers are pirating their games at 90% rates begins to fall apart."



"To put this into an even broader context. Estimated Global PC Sales(Retail/Digital)/F2P-Users/Subs/SNS-Games for 2011 is as follows: ◦Between 240-310 million units"

"Yet.. this isn’t feasible since again as we noted earlier in order to see those kinds of numbers pirated you’d have to make the top 5 list on the TorrentFreak list. Which Ubisoft doesn’t."

The only claim the article is picking apart is the one made by Ubisoft,using sales information and the TorrentFreak's mentioned article.

"Why the flare up? Ubisoft’s CEO (Yves Guillemot) recently made the following statement that created quite a stir and put a spotlight on this issue that’s been picked up all over the news.

“On PC it’s only around five to seven per cent of the players who pay for F2P, but normally on PC it’s only about five to seven per cent who pay anyway, the rest is pirated. It’s around a 93-95 per cent piracy rate, so it ends up at about the same percentage. The revenue we get from the people who play is more long term, so we can continue to bring content.”

But whatever fits your agenda i guess,you don't need a genius to know piracy creates monetary loss,and your attempted justification of "but it's not a significant monetary loss" really is laughable.

Does not matter if it is or it is not,it is still a monetary loss wich should not happen in the first place.
I fear most of this is too scattered and nonsensical to reply to, but I can bite on this one piece.

What could Yves Guillemot done back in 2011 that pissed Intel off so much they felt compelled to completely blow Ubisoft's argument out of the water? You seem to have all the answers. Paint me a magic picture of what happened then that lead to what happened then. Because if you can't get the origin right, your conclusion has almost no chance of being right. This was a lie so bad back in 2011 that the leading desktop CPU manufacturer felt compelled to weigh in on the argument. That's huge. That alone is bigger than the Swiss study and Ubisoft put together. The industry, as a whole, has decided this line of reasoning is destructive to the very industry. So much they tried to bury this lie nearly 5 years ago.
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post #146 of 278
I don't see an issue with Denuvo. Any claims that it kills SSD's or slows down the game have been proven false multiple times, and it actually is effective against piracy, and doesn't mess with the game with extra activation steps. I see no problem.
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post #147 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

I'd imagine 99% of the W3 sales were digital

There is no denuvo logon either - it's invisible

I agree with you that you should be able to sell your game licenses on - but that is not what this thread is about

It's more related than you think. If there's only bad deals on legit sale, chances are you'll get mafia like structures take over. That's what piracy is. It takes over where societal law fails its people, while the ringleaders try to gain power, prestige or profits for themselves. The fact there's widespread demand for this thing called piracy, to me implies that someone's not getting their act together on the legislative side.

It's a gargantuan task to tidy up copyright and patent law, and we might even have to adjust the societal contract with regard to what is labor (think of the game makers), and what is welfare, in the process. But we might as well start thinking about it!

Also, I thought this is about Warcraft 3 not Witcher 3. Oops.

edit: Now to be fair, what a bad deal is, is entirely subjective, as well as subject to ones income situation, and as you see, piracy isn't all that widespread right now anyhow. But I'd like to live in a world where less people than today see a point in piracy. This is going to require compromises, and in cases even improving the whole economic outlook for many people.
Edited by Tivan - 1/25/16 at 4:08pm
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post #148 of 278
Hi guys, I will give one final reminder until I lock this thread for good. Please check the tone of your writing. Do not sound rude/condescending and under no circumstances ever admit that you are involved in pirating anything because your posts will disappear and we maybe forced to hand out infractions too.
post #149 of 278
People can go back and forth arguing about whether piracy hurts sales or not and without real numbers and data, we'll never get anywhere...

What does seem rather odd is that people prefer to fight and discuss morality and assumptions instead of looking at the data we do have. Denuvo has been in action for a while, Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't cracked for a month after release, we can assume most game sales are made in the first few weeks, then why weren't the sales higher than normal? If pirates were 90% of the market, then why weren't the sales much, much higher? Surely the 90% not being able to play would have a sizable impact? no? rolleyes.gif
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post #150 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainvera View Post

People can go back and forth arguing about whether piracy hurts sales or not and without real numbers and data, we'll never get anywhere...

What does seem rather odd is that people prefer to fight and discuss morality and assumptions instead of looking at the data we do have. Denuvo has been in action for a while, Dragon Age Inquisition wasn't cracked for a month after release, we can assume most game sales are made in the first few weeks, then why weren't the sales higher than normal? If pirates were 90% of the market, then why weren't the sales much, much higher? Surely the 90% not being able to play would have a sizable impact? no? rolleyes.gif

I think it would take years for people to change. Also if you take a yearly release games like Assassins Creed people are not missing much for example. After about 1 year time most can just get games in sale. Many people are already getting their gaming fix from Free to Play games. The sales will increase if they make better games. If they want statistics they should just see how much consoles games sell. Also most games have MP as the main part so a MP will really be a indication 90% of potential sale. Take SW BF for example. You can't pirate that game but in PC sales where not that amazing and people playing are not large in number. You look at games like Witcher 3 which sell Expansion for $20 can has more content then 2-3 Assasins Creed games put together lol. I personally love to buy games with long development cycle like Witcher 3, GTA, Blizzard games, Tomb Raider.


Edited by ZealotKi11er - 1/25/16 at 4:25pm
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