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[OC3D] Far Cry: Primal and Rise of the Tomb Raider will use Denuvo Anti-Tamper Tech - Page 5  

post #41 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Even those that have money to buy games for PC much rather use that money towards buy a GPU lol.

Bingo!
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post #42 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasj1974 View Post

uhhhh a study is not science.......I can make a study to show evidence for almost anything I want........and you forget that people are liars........

So what you are in essence saying: People getting games without paying for them leads to more people buying the games. I disagree.

Also, there would be a lot more accoutability for developers if everyone had to pay for the game. You have your opinion and I have mine.
Studies from Switzerland tend not to have the numerous errors and bias that American studies have. They tend to be a little.... deutsche about their science.

What I am in essence saying is that all the commercials and hype in the world can't sell a game as well as a friend saying "This is a cool game.", and piracy enables more friends to tell more friends that a game is worth buying. I'm not sure why you disagree with that, but I accept it.

I'm not sure how a lack of piracy would lead to an increase in accountability. The first link by Intel shows that piracy is so overblown it is pathetic. Nobody is losing money from piracy. Nobody. How can fixing a nonexistent problem lead to any change in accountability levels?
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post #43 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasj1974 View Post

uhhhh a study is not science.......I can make a study to show evidence for almost anything I want........and you forget that people are liars........

So what you are in essence saying: People getting games without paying for them leads to more people buying the games. I disagree.

Also, there would be a lot more accoutability for developers if everyone had to pay for the game. You have your opinion and I have mine.

So someone spent the time to try and see if piracy actually caused fewer sales or more sales based on actual numbers and your response is "I don't believe them". Is there any evidence you would believe or will you take your preconceived assumptions over any study? What is the point of doing science at all if you just use predetermined expectations instead of actually collecting evidence?

Those studies show that the number of potential sales lost is equal to or less than the sales gained due to piracy. If you want to say this isn't true please provide some evidence besides "I don't believe it".

All opinions are equal, evidence means nothing.. and the earth is flat. rolleyes.gif

edit: One of the the key aspects of a good scientist is accepting the evidence when the results do not support your hypothesis and using the new information in the development of a new hypothesis.
Edited by Asmodian - 1/24/16 at 2:32pm
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post #44 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

What a bunch of low excuses.

First of all, tons of people pirate games because they can not because they cant afford it.
Secondly many think that there are always enough people that buy the game, so me downloading this for free wont matter. Thats typical human justification. And we are all humans. Meaning there are tons of other people thinking just like you...
Third, the negative aspects of allowing piracy by far outweigh the positive sides. Which are very few and can easily be replaced by legal ways.

You are delusional if you think piracy leads to anything other than distributing things for free while reducing income for game developers and studios which in the end hurt the game industry in many ways. Like making companies use DRM in the first place. Which ironically pirates hate (and many gamers)

I for one I'm mad that this is what we've come to, we shouldn't need to have DRMs on our games that clutter our registry and active processes running on our machine, its literally the equivalent to a Cop stationed in our house watching our every move making sure we never commit any crime, they should at least place this on Persons of Interest and not everyone, but then again to know who's a person of interest they'd need to sniff through our privacy anyway.

I would love if DRMs stop existing and we take different paths to combat piracy, adding extra benefits like multiplayer benefits or perks that can only be earned through an original copy of the game, when I was a little kid I used to pirate everything I could ever wish for, I used to play World of Warcraft in a Private server about 10 years ago, then I noticed how much better EVERYTHING was on the retail copy of the game after I was really engaged on this private server, how amazing the retail servers, retail communities, retail support and retail content of the game was compared to any private server.

World of Warcraft Vanilla private servers were my gateway into the real game, I can assure you I would have never got into WoW any other way, 6 months after I started on this private server I moved to retail servers of WoW, I played for about 10 WHOLE YEARS without cancelling my subscription once, and bought every single expansion at day 1, I spent around 4000$ on that game, now I'm no longer a subscriber but that's for unrelated reasons (The game sucks lol).

All of this would have never happened if I didn't had this friend of mine who also played on this private server to convince me to try it, when I made the jump to the retail servers of the game this real life friend "Odiseuss In-Game" also made the jump to retail servers with me, I can't account for his expenses, but I do can assure you he was there with me every single month at every single expansion, he stopped playing a little earlier than me, but again besides the point.

Why did we as customers choose to play that game for so long after being playing the pirate version for 6 months? For one, I can assure you it wasn't because of some intrusive and hateful DRM, it was because the game offered added value when played from retail versions compared to anything coming from unofficial sources, and I can also assure you my 4000$ would have never went to Blizzard's Pocket haven't there been private servers of the game available, same for my friend and dozens of others online friends who made the jump into the real Game.
post #45 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

What a bunch of low excuses.

First of all, tons of people pirate games because they can not because they cant afford it.
Secondly many think that there are always enough people that buy the game, so me downloading this for free wont matter. Thats typical human justification. And we are all humans. Meaning there are tons of other people thinking just like you...
Third, the negative aspects of allowing piracy by far outweigh the positive sides. Which are very few and can easily be replaced by legal ways.

You are delusional if you think piracy leads to anything other than distributing things for free while reducing income for game developers and studios which in the end hurt the game industry in many ways. Like making companies use DRM in the first place. Which ironically pirates hate (and many gamers)

It is easier to buy a game from Steam or somewhere else than to pirate it and forced to deal with cracked files, updated, more cracked files. If you could freely spend $60 on a game, you wouldn't pirate it. If did have $60 that you simply valued higher than the game, then you are likely to pirate it instead. However, that means you didn't have another $60 to freely spend it on a game.

It also depends on whether you think the game is actually worth that much. Witcher 3 is a PERFECT example. The game was DRM-free and it was so good that it really felt wrong to pirate it and a ton of would-be-pirates ended up buying it instead of pirating it or pirating it and then buying it. I bought 2 copies just to support the developers. I will NOT support developers who use Denuvo.

One way or another, Denuvo will be beaten.
Edited by MonarchX - 1/24/16 at 2:39pm
post #46 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

My view is not based on supposition. Asking for proof and then attacking the position makes you look like you've already arrived to a preconceived solution.

I'd start my proof by showing exactly how overblown piracy really is, using a 2011 post from an Intel employee on their official site.

https://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2012/09/22/gaming-piracy-separating-fact-from-fiction

As you can see, there is no real monetary impact to piracy at all.

Here is a study funded by the Swiss that supports my argument.

http://kotaku.com/5864996/these-guys-think-piracy-is-ok-because-it-leads-to-sales

Point 1: "...most pirated content did not decrease sales of the content in question, because people's budgets were remaining constant for entertainment regardless of whether they pirated or not, or how much they pirated. This made pirating "complementary" to their regular spend on entertainment."

Point 2: "...pirating content actually led in many instances to people spending more money on stuff."

Note both of these are from 2011. This was settled science half a decade ago.
The intel article does not mention anywhere that "Most pirates will never buy the game"

As for your study,what's the point of sharing it in an english talking forum? Can't even read it. Not to mention that it's a study done for Switzerland,not the whole world.

I'd check the meaning of piracy before claiming it has no monetary impact. lachen.gif

From your Intel article

"In all cases the volume of games being pirated in the top 5 list for 2011 typically varies from between ~2-4mu apiece. So the grand total for PC Games pirated in the top 5 equals 17.66mu"

17 million units just in 2011. Not bad. Wich until proven with real numbers,are lost sales thanks to piracy. And that's just the top5.
Edited by GoLDii3 - 1/24/16 at 2:54pm
post #47 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasj1974 View Post

If they do come up with some uncrackable DRM, big "if" IMO, it should benefit pc gaming due to the influx of revenue. "Should" being the key word here.........

Actually not quite.

Piracy is a $75 billion $/year "industry" but, the PC subset of that is like less than a %...And with the new DRM it becomes less than a fraction of that %.

If anything, publishers might see a 5-10% increase in total, yearly revenue, if that...I'd bet it stays the same, actually.

So there won't really be any benefit because there won't really be any influx of capital.

Citation needed.
post #48 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

So someone spent the time to try and see if piracy actually caused fewer sales or more sales based on actual numbers and your response is "I don't believe them". Is there any evidence you would believe or will you take your preconceived assumptions over any study? What is the point of doing science at all if you just use predetermined expectations instead of actually collecting evidence?

Those studies show that the number of potential sales lost is equal to or less than the sales gained due to piracy. If you want to say this isn't true please provide some evidence besides "I don't believe it".

All opinions are equal, evidence means nothing.. and the earth is flat. rolleyes.gif

edit: One of the the key aspects of a good scientist is accepting the evidence when the results do not support your hypothesis and using the new information in the development of a new hypothesis.

I don't have to be a scientist to realize that people downloading the game for free equates to less sales. Keep trying to justify your position.....elaborately or otherwise....your argument is a justification for something that most people understand cannot be allowed to continue "unfettered"........Like I said before "You can come up with a study to demonstrate support for any position you want"......I have said my peace....Don't let me stop you.
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post #49 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLDii3 View Post

I'd check the meaning of piracy before claiming it has no monetary impact.

I would check if piracy had a monetary impact before claiming it has a monetary impact. Once checked, of course, we ignore any evidence contrary to our expectations because "common sense".
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post #50 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucasj1974 View Post

I don't have to be a scientist to realize that people downloading the game for free equates to less sales.

That is the point. You do actually have to be a scientist, or at least use scientific data, to determine whether the people who would have bought it but didn't because they could steal it outnumber the people who did buy it because they heard it was good from someone who stole it.
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