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[gpuopen] AMD Officially Launches GPUOpen - Page 7

post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

Just as an amusing remark - well, you could actually reduce HairWorks' tesselation level on AMD cards to a reasonable value and thus eventually leading the game to vastly higher framerate without easily perceptive loss in image quality. tongue.gif

Which basically means its not really needed other than benchmarking purposes? smile.gif
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post #62 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

Just as an amusing remark - well, you could actually reduce HairWorks' tesselation level on AMD cards to a reasonable value and thus eventually leading the game to vastly higher framerate without easily perceptive loss in image quality. tongue.gif

Which basically means its not really needed other than benchmarking purposes? smile.gif

I can't say with certainty what the point in this really was; I haven't figured it out for myself, but I also haven't bothered to.
There have been speculations about NVidia purposely introducing HWorks with a sky-high tesselation factor because their uArch generally handles tesselation with a lesser impact on performance, however I am not quite sure about the legitimacy of these claims.

Anyway, the ultimate outcome is that I was able to play Witcher with HairWorks on and still keep really good framerates. tongue.gif
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post #63 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

I can't say with certainty what the point in this really was; I haven't figured it out for myself, but I also haven't bothered to.
There have been speculations about NVidia purposely introducing HWorks with a sky-high tesselation factor because their uArch generally handles tesselation with a lesser impact on performance, however I am not quite sure about the legitimacy of these claims.

Anyway, the ultimate outcome is that I was able to play Witcher with HairWorks on and still keep really good framerates. tongue.gif

Well, as an bystander it really seems like that though. (As I havent played any games that includes GW nor do I plan to do so I really dont care about the performance hit)
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post #64 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fragamemnon View Post

I can't say with certainty what the point in this really was; I haven't figured it out for myself, but I also haven't bothered to.
There have been speculations about NVidia purposely introducing HWorks with a sky-high tesselation factor because their uArch generally handles tesselation with a lesser impact on performance, however I am not quite sure about the legitimacy of these claims.

Anyway, the ultimate outcome is that I was able to play Witcher with HairWorks on and still keep really good framerates. tongue.gif

Well, as an bystander it really seems like that though. (As I havent played any games that includes GW nor do I plan to do so I really dont care about the performance hit)

It may, it may not.
Let's not get crazy with wild speculations. wink.gif
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post #65 of 95
I understand what you're saying, but that's still a band-aid fix more than anything else. Whereas for TressFX it appears something was fixed at the code level.
post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

1. TressFX was broken for nVidia cards on launch sure, but AMD cards took an equal hit in performance. Note the posting date, which is before the Mar 10 patch that fixed performance issues. And how about after the patch? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


7970 GE: 22.2% performance penalty
680: 10.4% performance penalty

Oh hey look, nVidia cards now took a smaller performance hit and run better than AMD cards even when using AMD's technology! When was the last time something like that happened for Gameworks effects on AMD cards? Like literally never.

2. You have it backwards, it was nVidia that needed the final build code in order to optimize for the game, not the other way around. If anything it was nVidia that had to pull some major effort to make it work, not Crystal Dynamics.

There is a difference between just performance hit (and using a stronger GPU rolleyes.gif) than having glitches. TressFX even today does not work at all when you run SLI, and the hair still starts to go all over the place. As I stated earlier, some games still out-right disable tressFX completely. Look at Lichdom: Battlemage.

And If the developer has to do code changes, than he doesn't have to work?
The whole issue was that with Crystal Dynamics working closely with AMD, they game was trying to run AMD API even on geforce cards regardless of tressfx being disabled, which caused a lot of crashes, texture issues and nice blinking lights all over the place. So If gameworks does that it is bad and it is nvidia's fault, but if AMD does that it is good and it is nvidia's fault? Right... rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by infranoia View Post

You know better than that. Name one AMD initiative since they bought NexGen that wasn't playing the long game. It's a marathon, and GDDR*, HBM, AMD64, GCN console wins, Mantle/Vulkan and FreeSync are either still in the race or have already won. Bulldozer, I'll give you, which sucked from all angles, but that (and GCN) are both just proprietary architectures & products, not industry initiatives.

It's way too early to nail the coffin shut on GPUOpen. We were hearing the same thing about Mantle.

Most of those things, are being developed outside of AMD. Even if AMD put the first foot through the door, they just backed off and said "well we opened the door, now someone else starts do the work so we can get the credit".
Mantle development died completely. Some of its features, and features from MS's DX12, are being put into vulkan, but just like DX12, it is not straight out mantle rebuild.
Freesync is also a great example. AMD did not develop it. VESA did a long time ago as part of the eDP. AMD just pushed VESA until they agreed to put that same tech into DP. And we have not seen it making any real changes. It did not eliminate ghosting, and it has it's own issues (look at fallout4 and freesync issues).
Bulldozer was not just a one-time flop. AMD did not accept it's failure until they went completely out of the desktop market except the APUs not he low end market. Right now they have been promising that zen will be coming "any day now" for the last 2 years or so.

All the stuff in the GPUOpen have been declared about 3 years ago as open, just like mantle, but their source was never released (until now).
This is why I don't like that so-called "open source", especially when it is being developed by one, and doesn't release the code until it is fully optimised to them.
When one is developing it to be optimised to their GPUs only, and push it as "open and free", you are bound to get hit on the face on any other vendor (aka, nvidia). Unlike gameworks, which was always developed for nvidia only, and it is not forced on AMD users, AMD are trying to force GPUOpen on nvidia.
And as we know, that will not go to our benefit in any way. We will just end up with some games working with AMD and optimising the GPUOpen to AMD, and some games optimising gameworks and GPUOpen to nvidia, and each time we will get bad performance on one or the other, depends on where the developer optimised the code.
And with past experience, we have seen how well developers optimise their code...

We have been though that in the past already. It never ends well when one has full control on something so called "open".
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post #67 of 95
Nvidia is still the best in the business.
    
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post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

There is a difference between just performance hit (and using a stronger GPU rolleyes.gif) than having glitches. TressFX even today does not work at all when you run SLI, and the hair still starts to go all over the place. As I stated earlier, some games still out-right disable tressFX completely. Look at Lichdom: Battlemage.

That's funny, because when I still had my old 970 SLI setup, I ran Tomb Raider at 1440p with every setting maxed out and TressFX on, and never encountered any glitches or have the hair "go all over the place". Anecdotal sure, but the game was a silky smooth, bug-free experience for me with 970 SLI.
Quote:
And If the developer has to do code changes, than he doesn't have to work?
The whole issue was that with Crystal Dynamics working closely with AMD, they game was trying to run AMD API even on geforce cards regardless of tressfx being disabled, which caused a lot of crashes, texture issues and nice blinking lights all over the place. So If gameworks does that it is bad and it is nvidia's fault, but if AMD does that it is good and it is nvidia's fault? Right... rolleyes.gif

Look I'm not looking for an argument about "right vs wrong".. What I was getting at, is that not only were all the issues with TressFX on nVidia cards fixed within 2 weeks, but after patching up nVidia cards actually ran better than the equivalent AMD cards. When was the last time Gameworks issues on AMD cards were addressed in such a manner?

Or put it another way: when "AMD Gameworks" happens to nVidia, it all gets sorted out in 2 weeks, but when "nVidia Gameworks" happens to AMD, they seem to perpetually stick. So I have to ask: why is that?
Edited by magnek - 1/28/16 at 12:22am
post #69 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

rolleyes.gif

So if AMD64=x64, and IA-64=X64, you are saying that IA-64=AMD64, in which case the xeon architecture and code equals to opteron?

rolleyes.gif

 

IA64 is Itanium...

 

Which ironically has been deprecated and not even Windows Server supports it.

 

Some distros of Linux still do though.

 


 

This sort of commitment is good. How much of it will actually make it out to the wild remains to be seen, but the thought is good and if anything gets people interested and talking about it.


Edited by Artikbot - 1/28/16 at 12:42am
   
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post #70 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post


Or put it another way: when "AMD Gameworks" happens to nVidia, it all gets sorted out in 2 weeks, but when "nVidia Gameworks" happens to AMD, they seem to perpetually stick. So I have to ask: why is that?

Nvidia has a better driver team?
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Core i7-4790K GIGABYTE GA-G1.Sniper Z97 MSI Geforce GTX 1080 Gaming 8G G.Skill RipjawsX 16GB (8GB x 2) DDR3 2133 MHz 
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Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" SATA SSD Noctua NH-D15 Corsair Air Series AF140 Quiet Edition Fractal Design GP14 
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Microsoft Windows 10 Pro Viewsonic XG2703-GS Cooler Master Masterkeys S PBT Cherry MX Silver Seasonic X650 
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Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout Edition Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Artisan Hayate Mid Bose Companion 3 Series II 
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Intel Core i7 6700HQ Intel HM170 Express NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M 8GB GDDR5 G.Skill Ripjaws 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4 2133MHz SODIMM 
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Samsung 850 EVO 500GB M.2 SATA SSD Cooler Master SF-17 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 15.6” FHD (1920x1080) IPS 60Hz G-Sync 
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Logitech G502 Proteus Core Razer Goliathus Mobile Stealth Edition 
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Intel Pentium G4560 ASRock B250M Pro4 Intel HD Graphics 610 G.Skill Aegis 8GB (4GBx2) DDR4 2400MHz 
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Crucial M500 240GB SATA SSD Intel stock CPU cooler Corsair SP120 quiet edition Noctua NF P14s redux-1200 
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Windows 10 Pro Dell U2311H Logitech G610 Orion Brown Seasonic S12II 620W 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [gpuopen] AMD Officially Launches GPUOpen