Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Senecaglobe] (NASDAQ:AMD) Gets Warning of Bankruptcy
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Senecaglobe] (NASDAQ:AMD) Gets Warning of Bankruptcy - Page 11

post #101 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

As I mentioned the IP is worth quite a bit, more than the 1.6 billion in market capitalization, but AMD's business has been losing hundreds of millions to billions of dollars. They don't make money. That is the core goal of any business.

This is with the company being run on fumes and costs run as low as they can go. The selling of millions of unit of products is nothing when this is more than offset by the cost of production and R and D expediture and overhead. Plus sales are continuing to decrease far more than the rest of the industry. Intel and Nvidia are having record revenues while AMD overall sales have dropped to historically low levels.

The console revenue isn't enough to keep them from losing money because the margins are too low.

The x86 market is the reddest bloodiest ocean there is right now and it is their core business. It's very difficult to make money in because competition is fierce and the overall revenue in this market isn't growing. It costs billions to develop products for it and for AMD, it doesn't make enough money to sustain itself.

AMD has talented engineers for sure, but they need billions to make the products they want in the time frame they need to make money to cover their losses. And there's still a high chance that they won't make money because of market conditions, the AMD brand vs Intel brand and the strength of the competition.

AMD is a failing business and turning it around will be incredibly difficult and risky for the buyer.
So, worthless or not worthless?
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
post #102 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

So, worthless or not worthless?
Depending on who you ask, ie: forum poster vs investor tongue.gif
To say the least, it's a huge risk with potential
Edited by alphabet - 1/28/16 at 6:50pm
post #103 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

So, worthless or not worthless?

Worthless, most companies would have to be paid to take on AMD's business, hence it's incredibly low value considering the IP.

If you buy AMD, you have to absorb their losses and debts, and if you want to make money from your investment, you have to spend billions and fight Intel and to a lesser extent nvidia. Plus the market, vendors, consumers and PC makers all prefer Intel and Nvidia heavily. This means your successes are minimized because people have a difficult time recognizing your achievements. AMD vs Nvidia is the clearest picture of this. At the same price and performance, Nvidia crushes AMD in sales. AMD needs to have similar performance at better value to sell okay vs Nvidia. If AMD has worse performance and better price to performance, it sheds marketshare vs Nvidia. When Nvidia has better price to performance, it devastates AMD. Same story with Intel. This is what makes a turn out so difficult and such a difficult buy. AMD will not only need better technology than those companies, they need to spend billions on marketing and this will take years. This is gamble that pretty much any company doesn't want to take on.

However, if they go bankrupt, you can buy the desirable portions of the company, like the graphic business and semicustom and leave the x86 business and licence x86 64 to intel.

This doesn't mean there is no hope. Zen needs to be spectacular for them to survive. Polaris won't be enough because the graphic industry is not a lucrative enough market.
post #104 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

Worthless, most companies would have to be paid to take on AMD's business, hence it's incredibly low value considering the IP.

If you buy AMD, you have to absorb their losses and debts, and if you want to make money from your investment, you have to spend billions and fight Intel and to a lesser extent nvidia. Plus the market, vendors, consumers and PC makers all prefer Intel and Nvidia heavily. This means your successes are minimized because people have a difficult time recognizing your achievements. AMD vs Nvidia is the clearest picture of this. At the same price and performance, Nvidia crushes AMD in sales. AMD needs to have similar performance at better value to sell okay vs Nvidia. If AMD has worse performance and better price to performance, it sheds marketshare vs Nvidia. When Nvidia has better price to performance, it devastates AMD. Same story with Intel. This is what makes a turn out so difficult and such a difficult buy. AMD will not only need better technology than those companies, they need to spend billions on marketing and this will take years. This is gamble that pretty much any company doesn't want to take on.

However, if they go bankrupt, you can buy the desirable portions of the company, like the graphic business and semicustom and leave the x86 business and licence x86 64 to intel.

This doesn't mean there is no hope. Zen needs to be spectacular for them to survive. Polaris won't be enough because the graphic industry is not a lucrative enough market.
Maybe you aren't aware of what worthless means.
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
post #105 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

Maybe you aren't aware of what worthless means.
You took his well explained thoughts and dumbed it down to a literal interpretation of a word?

Maybe you aren't aware of figurative speech tongue.gif
Quote:
A figure of speech or rhetorical figure is figurative language in the form of a single word or phrase. It can be a special repetition, arrangement or omission of words with literal meaning, or a phrase with a specialized meaning not based on the literal meaning of the words.
post #106 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphabet View Post

You took his well explained thoughts and dumbed it down to a literal interpretation of a word?

Maybe you aren't aware of figurative speech tongue.gif
If one proclaims worthlessness, then argues that there is innate worth, what else am I supposed to think?
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
post #107 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

If one proclaims worthlessness, then argues that there is innate worth, what else am I supposed to think?
Critical thinking, context clues, common sense.

I understand your point, but you can't be smart enough to question his detailed explanation then become un-smart and point your finger at one word. He went well into detail to provide insight on his thoughts and you are taking one word out of context from the well written response to make a point. Not sure if you are trolling him this point.
Edited by alphabet - 1/28/16 at 8:06pm
post #108 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphabet View Post

Critical thinking, context clues, common sense.

I understand your point, but you can't be smart enough to question his detailed explanation then become un-smart and point your finger at one word. He went well into detail to provide insight on his thoughts and you are taking one word out of context from the competent response to make a point. Not sure if you are trolling him at this point.
You're somehow glossing over the fact that he himself described and attributed worth to the company not once, but twice, after repeatedly confirming his initial assertion of AMD=worthless. I'm not clinging to the literal word like some 4chan arguer, his (and others) glib manner that, when pressed, changes to "worthless and crappy except for z" is why I've kept responding to a topic I impugned 100 posts ago.
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
Lil' Roy Taylor
(11 items)
 
  
Reply
post #109 of 173
Maybe because first he goes to say the IP might be worth more than 1.6B and then goes to talk about low value?

He does have good points but on some he is actually contradicting himself.
AMD
(13 items)
 
Intel
(7 items)
 
Home Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 Asus M5A99FX Pro MSI Radeon R9-280x MSI Radeon R9-280x 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD
(13 items)
 
Intel
(7 items)
 
Home Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 Asus M5A99FX Pro MSI Radeon R9-280x MSI Radeon R9-280x 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
  hide details  
Reply
post #110 of 173
I don't think this is trolling, just arguing to win a point instead of in an attempt to further the understanding of the real worth of AMD as a company.

They have great IP and I am sure some important talent but they also a weak product stream and a lot of debt. Net worth is a complex topic but I do agree that any potential buyers would much rather wait for bankruptcy and then buy up the good parts without the debt.

It would be crazy for anyone to do anything drastic until after Zen is on the market for at least a few months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4inkill3r View Post

If one proclaims worthlessness, then argues that there is innate worth, what else am I supposed to think?

That the negatives cancel out the positives? If you have to pay someone to take it it is worthless in a monetary sense, isn't it?
Desktop
(16 items)
 
RAID
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-6700K @ 4.8GHz Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Alpha Titan X (Pascal) @ 2.05GHz 32GB LPX DDR4 3200-15-17-17-35-1T 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 960 Pro 2TB EK Custom Water Loop Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU bprz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HTC Vive Logitech G810 SilverStone ST1200-G Evolution Old Marble Slab 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G900 Logitech G440 Sennheiser HD 600 Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5960X @ 4.2GHz Asus Rampage 5 Extreme Nvidia GeForce GT 545 32GB DDR4 (2400-12-12-12-28-1T) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512GB HGST NAS 4TB x8 - 21.8TB RAID6 Western Digital Black 4TB Samsung SH-S183L 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NH-D15 Windows 10 Pro Asus VG278H WASD "CODE" Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseOther
SeaSonic Platinum-1000 DIYPC Alpha-GT3 Logitech G700s Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
Other
Adaptec RAID 71605 
  hide details  
Reply
Desktop
(16 items)
 
RAID
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-6700K @ 4.8GHz Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Alpha Titan X (Pascal) @ 2.05GHz 32GB LPX DDR4 3200-15-17-17-35-1T 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 960 Pro 2TB EK Custom Water Loop Windows 10 Pro x64 Acer XB270HU bprz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
HTC Vive Logitech G810 SilverStone ST1200-G Evolution Old Marble Slab 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G900 Logitech G440 Sennheiser HD 600 Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5960X @ 4.2GHz Asus Rampage 5 Extreme Nvidia GeForce GT 545 32GB DDR4 (2400-12-12-12-28-1T) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512GB HGST NAS 4TB x8 - 21.8TB RAID6 Western Digital Black 4TB Samsung SH-S183L 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NH-D15 Windows 10 Pro Asus VG278H WASD "CODE" Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseOther
SeaSonic Platinum-1000 DIYPC Alpha-GT3 Logitech G700s Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
Other
Adaptec RAID 71605 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [Senecaglobe] (NASDAQ:AMD) Gets Warning of Bankruptcy