Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Register] Seagate’s triple whammy: Disk numbers, costs, and flash
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[The Register] Seagate’s triple whammy: Disk numbers, costs, and flash - Page 7

post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

No what I mean is backblaze has different revisions of racks and some of them are or were terrible. No protection against vibration and such. There was a good article back then from tomshardware.. Need to find it again.
What if most seagate drives failed because the rack and environment was not optimal? At the same time they could have used new revisions for their WD and hitachi drives which would lead into wrong conclusions.
That can be controlled and I assume that utilizing that data point in their analysis. At the point in time, there were only 3 revisions of their Storage Pod.

The Storage Pod 3.0 (OSS in 2013) had vibrations as a consideration.
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagamus NM View Post

It will be five. Feel free to come back and quote me as wrong. Higher capacity SSDs get cheaper by the day while the 6TB HDDs have not decreased at the same rate. If the trend continues the values will eventually overlap.

I didn't say anything about 10TB, just that we will see continuous increases in ssd density. It may take a form factor increase to get there but ther is plenty of form to gro into for the desktop and server market.

However, NAND is facing a process limitation so the price drops of NAND will not continue indefinitely. There might be one (maybe two) more full lithography shrink left for NAND. After that, NAND can no longer get cheaper through increase process density since the electrons will tunnel through the silicon too easily. Stacked or 3D NAND is allowing re-use of older lithography but there's a fundamental limit on NAND.

With HDDs, perpendicular records and singled blocks have been the major advances in the last decade. HAMR and patterned-media are expected to arrive in the next 3 years and these should significantly increase platter density. These major breakthroughs should start decreasing the cost of HDDs once again.

You're comparing simple trends based on current data. I'm telling you there are more things to consider.

"Past Performance Is Not An Indicator Of Future Results"
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
Once again...
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 920 [4.28GHz, HT] Asus P6T + Broadcom NetXtreme II VisionTek HD5850 [900/1200] + Galaxy GT240 2x4GB G.Skill Ripjaw X [1632 MHz] 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Intel X25-M 160GB + 3xRAID0 500GB 7200.12 Window 7 Pro 64 Acer H243H + Samsung 226BW XARMOR-U9BL  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Antec Truepower New 750W Li Lian PC-V2100 [10x120mm fans] Logitech G9 X-Trac Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

...good luck, nice knowing you....... SSDs are the most UNRELIABLE technology/drives ever. i had way too many die on without warning nor chance to recover.

majority of them just died due to crappy controllers giving out while the rest dies due to flash wearing out.

i'd take a trusty HDD over an SSD anyday. i've never had a HDD go out on me and for as long as i keep them spinning on a constant temperature they will never go out on my on my life time.

Much of that is simply not true. It was when SSDs first came out but, for some time now, they have been far more reliable than HDDs. HDDs can and often do fail without warning with no chance of data recovery. When data can be recovered, it is often an extremely expensive process with no guarantee of even partial success. The only reliable protection against data loss is to implement a solid backup scheme. As long as one data is properly backed up, data loss from sudden, unrecoverable failure will not be an issue. Anyone who doesn't properly backup their data, counting on a drive—any kind of drive—to be reliable, is courting disaster.

I have yet to have an SSD fail. I have had HDDs fail. Just because you have been lucky with HDDs (and luck is all it has been) doesn't mean they won't fail. SSDs can also fail but they now are far less likely to fail than HDDs. SSDs also now last far longer without wearing out the cells. Unless you are constantly moving massive amounts of data around, it is highly unlikely you will ever wear out a decent SSD before you want to replace it several years down the road with newer, improved technology.
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930K Haswell-e Asus X99-E WS/USB 3.1 Visiontek Radeon 7870 2GB with 6 miniDisplayports G-Skill Ripjaws 64GB (8x8GB) DDR4 2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 EVO 4TB SSDs Samsung 950 Pro 512GB m.2 SSD boot drive Noctua NH-D15S Cpu cooler Win 7 Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX760 Scratch built. Currently under construction at ... Logitech M525 El Cheapo Allsop hard plastic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-3930k ASUS P9X79 WS MSI R7850 Twin Frozr 2GD5/OC Radeon HD 7850 2GB... Monoprice 1x2 powered HDMI Splitter 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston HyperX 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDR... 128GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD LG 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Inter... COOLER MASTER GeminII S524 120mm Long Life Slee... 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Ultimate 3 x Asus VG248QE Vizio VO320E 32" TV Logitech G510s 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair HX750W Antec Two Hundred v2 Logitech M525 with Unifying Receiving Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
AudioOtherOtherOther
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-... LSI 9211-8i HBA card HooToo® HT-CR001 3.5" PCI-E to USB 3.0 Multi-in... StarTech HSB220SAT25B 2 Drive 2.5in Trayless Ho... 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5930K Haswell-e Asus X99-E WS/USB 3.1 Visiontek Radeon 7870 2GB with 6 miniDisplayports G-Skill Ripjaws 64GB (8x8GB) DDR4 2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 EVO 4TB SSDs Samsung 950 Pro 512GB m.2 SSD boot drive Noctua NH-D15S Cpu cooler Win 7 Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair AX760 Scratch built. Currently under construction at ... Logitech M525 El Cheapo Allsop hard plastic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-3930k ASUS P9X79 WS MSI R7850 Twin Frozr 2GD5/OC Radeon HD 7850 2GB... Monoprice 1x2 powered HDMI Splitter 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston HyperX 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDR... 128GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD LG 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Inter... COOLER MASTER GeminII S524 120mm Long Life Slee... 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Ultimate 3 x Asus VG248QE Vizio VO320E 32" TV Logitech G510s 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair HX750W Antec Two Hundred v2 Logitech M525 with Unifying Receiving Corsair SP2500 2.1 Speakers 
AudioOtherOtherOther
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-... LSI 9211-8i HBA card HooToo® HT-CR001 3.5" PCI-E to USB 3.0 Multi-in... StarTech HSB220SAT25B 2 Drive 2.5in Trayless Ho... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #64 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post

Guess its time for another flood eh boys? rolleyes.gif
Please don't redface.gif
SandLer
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 2600k @stock Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-B3 rev. 1.3 GTX 660 Ti AMP! 2gb  GTX 660 Ti AMP! 2gb  
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G. Skill Sniper 8gb  Plextor M2S 128gb Samsung 7200rpm 320gb Western Digital 1Tb Caviar Green 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Windows 8.1 Pro x64 BenQ GW2250 Razer Blackwidow Tournament 2014 Edition 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec Truepower 750w Aerocool Strike X One Advance Logitech G400s ASUS Xonar DSX 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
SandLer
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 2600k @stock Gigabyte Z68X-UD3H-B3 rev. 1.3 GTX 660 Ti AMP! 2gb  GTX 660 Ti AMP! 2gb  
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
G. Skill Sniper 8gb  Plextor M2S 128gb Samsung 7200rpm 320gb Western Digital 1Tb Caviar Green 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Windows 8.1 Pro x64 BenQ GW2250 Razer Blackwidow Tournament 2014 Edition 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Antec Truepower 750w Aerocool Strike X One Advance Logitech G400s ASUS Xonar DSX 5.1 
  hide details  
Reply
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Yes. Seagate/WD themselves manifested that flood. rolleyes.gif

Also, factory items usually cost around a penny or two and they are in business purely for charity.
You realize I'm referring to that flood some how apparently hampering their ability to produce HDD's, which was their excuse for literally doubling the price tag on HDD's (At least here in Aus they did)...and yet they then proceeded to announce record sales figures for that year (Not only in earnings, but volume of sales as well)..hmmm...I thought their ability to produce hard drives was negatively impacted though? rolleyes.gif
post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Yes. Seagate/WD themselves manifested that flood. rolleyes.gif

Also, factory items usually cost around a penny or two and they are in business purely for charity.
You realize I'm referring to that flood some how apparently hampering their ability to produce HDD's, which was their excuse for literally doubling the price tag on HDD's (At least here in Aus they did)...and yet they then proceeded to announce record sales figures for that year (Not only in earnings, but volume of sales as well)..hmmm...I thought their ability to produce hard drives was negatively impacted though? rolleyes.gif

WD's production had been reduced by 10% but they massively increased the prices of their HD's. Even Seagate increased their prices, even though they hadn't been affected at all due to not having factories in Thailand.

The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
Reply
The girlfriend.
(15 items)
 
The Mistress
(13 items)
 
Media Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A8-6410 Lenovo Lancer 4B2 K16.3 R5 128 Shaders/M230 Hynix 8GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveOSMonitor
Samsung 840 120 GB SSD Seagate Momentus 1TB 5400rmp Win 8.1 CMN1487 TN LED 14" 1366*768 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Lenovo AccuType 2900mAh/41Wh Elan Trackpad/Logitech M90 Super Flower 
Audio
AMD Avalon(Connexant) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #67 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

WD's production had been reduced by 10% but they massively increased the prices of their HD's. Even Seagate increased their prices, even though they hadn't been affected at all due to not having factories in Thailand.
Sorry I should of clarified more, I meant Seagate in my post, WD had at least a some-what legitimate excuse for their price-hike...although it was literally a 100% increase in price to somehow compensate for 10% loss in production...I suspect there would of been some price gouging from retailers over here as well.
post #68 of 88
Seagate does have factories in Thailand but they managed to survive the floods. Thier supply chain was also damaged as their suppliers got hit by the floods. Doesn't excuse their price gouging and price increases though.
Foot Warmer
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 4670k @ 4.2ghz core/4ghz uncore MSI Z87 G45 Gaming Powercolor Radeon R9 280 OC 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 1866mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
2TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 128GB Adata SP920  Corsair H80i  LG 22EN33 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair CX600v2.3 Antec 302 Zalman M200 
  hide details  
Reply
Foot Warmer
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 4670k @ 4.2ghz core/4ghz uncore MSI Z87 G45 Gaming Powercolor Radeon R9 280 OC 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws X 1866mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
2TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 128GB Adata SP920  Corsair H80i  LG 22EN33 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair CX600v2.3 Antec 302 Zalman M200 
  hide details  
Reply
post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/934-7/ssd.html

vs

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/934-6/disques-durs.html

Or, the worst SSD brand has better return rates than the best HDD brand.

Also, retail return rates for Seagate HDDs. Please stop bashing them so much based on FUD.

PD: EU forces a standard 2 year warranty on all these products.

Retail return stats have essentially no value. There are two common return channels: to stores and to the manufacturer. Right away you know you aren't capturing everything. Then there is the third option, also popular amongst consumers, and that is known as simply throwing dead parts away. As such, failure statistics from a large user of disks is a lot more revealing. Stats from the manufacturer, if honest, would be better yet.
post #70 of 88
My experience with HDDs, and what I've read from publicly published reports from companies running statistically significant numbers of drives, is that it's quite rare for an instant mechanical failure rather than a SMART notified death. Whereas SSDs appear to be more prone to instant failure. The way a drive fails is also important barring massive levels of full storage unit redundancy.
Edited by Vesku - 2/1/16 at 6:59am
Everyday PC
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3470 (+4 Turbo bins) Biostar T77XE3 Radeon 7950 16GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Pro x64 Samsung 24" TN MS Natural Elite 4000 
PowerCaseMouse
Antec HPG 900W Lian-li K57W Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
Everyday PC
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-3470 (+4 Turbo bins) Biostar T77XE3 Radeon 7950 16GB DDR3 1600 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung F3 1TB Windows 7 Pro x64 Samsung 24" TN MS Natural Elite 4000 
PowerCaseMouse
Antec HPG 900W Lian-li K57W Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [The Register] Seagate’s triple whammy: Disk numbers, costs, and flash