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[The Register] Seagate’s triple whammy: Disk numbers, costs, and flash - Page 8

post #71 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

Retail return stats have essentially no value. There are two common return channels: to stores and to the manufacturer. Right away you know you aren't capturing everything. Then there is the third option, also popular amongst consumers, and that is known as simply throwing dead parts away. As such, failure statistics from a large user of disks is a lot more revealing. Stats from the manufacturer, if honest, would be better yet.

What? The seller is always taking care of that RMA no matter who is contacted first. The manufacturer won't agree to replace, fix or refund for anything unless the seller is backing it up with a verified sale. At least in Europe, dunno how you work this out over there.

I agree with the third option as people sometimes just store or throw away something broken instead of trying to repair it.
post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

What? The seller is always taking care of that RMA no matter who is contacted first. The manufacturer won't agree to replace, fix or refund for anything unless the seller is backing it up with a verified sale. At least in Europe, dunno how you work this out over there.

I agree with the third option as people sometimes just store or throw away something broken instead of trying to repair it.

Huh?
Some companies take care of the whole RMA process. Even in the EU.
For example Corsair does it for sure.
And I think WD aswell, right?
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post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I miss Hitachi, they made great drives but Toshiba quitting the business is also bad news, better buy a few of their 2-3TB's before it's too late.

toshiba isn't making hard drives anymore?
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post #74 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

Huh?
Some companies take care of the whole RMA process. Even in the EU.
For example Corsair does it for sure.
And I think WD aswell, right?

That's right. I forgot about them as it is extremely rare.
post #75 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imouto View Post

What? The seller is always taking care of that RMA no matter who is contacted first. The manufacturer won't agree to replace, fix or refund for anything unless the seller is backing it up with a verified sale. At least in Europe, dunno how you work this out over there.

I agree with the third option as people sometimes just store or throw away something broken instead of trying to repair it.

Sellers here at least typically will not take care of the warranty process on behalf of the customer outside of a small window after the sale. If your unit is DOA, you might have 30 or 60 days to return it. For the bulk of the warranty period though, they typically tell you tough poops--return it to the manufacturer. The exception here is if the product was sold as part of some other system like drives included in systems made by Dell. The manufacturer will tell you it has no warranty and to return it to the place of purchase.
post #76 of 88
The thing that's killing Seagate is their reliability. I haven't bought a Seagate drive in years.
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post #77 of 88
WD rma is as painless as it gets, they will cross ship or send you a label. Just need a ser# withing warranty period, no muss no fuss. Their green series is junk though. But they are my goto. The blues are perfect price/capacity.
post #78 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

good luck, nice knowing you....... SSDs are the most UNRELIABLE technology/drives ever. i had way too many die on without warning nor chance to recover.

majority of them just died due to crappy controllers giving out while the rest dies due to flash wearing out.

i'd take a trusty HDD over an SSD anyday. i've never had a HDD go out on me and for as long as i keep them spinning on a constant temperature they will never go out on my on my life time.

Get slightly older ones and you know the controller is good..You know, just like a HDD because even their controllers are hit and miss sometimes.
And really? Flash wearing out? Just how much data are you writing per day..?

I've had many HDDs die on me including most recently my 1TB WD Black, I've also had two SSDs die on me (Both Crucial M4s) however my Intel 330, Corsair Force 3 and Samsung 840Evo are fine and all in good health with literally years of writing left before they actually die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I thought it had to do with microvibrations that eventually cause damage to the drives?

Yup, and in an environment like Backblaze's where they literally have 20+ drives in a single chassis the vibrations would be pretty hectic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DzillaXx View Post

I can't really trust Seagate Drives, mainly because I've never not had to RMA one after 1-2 years of use. Pretty much every seagate drive I've owned over the last two decades have never lasted more than 4 years tops. All my currently in use Seagate Drives are under 2 years in use, simply because they have been RMAed in the last 1-2 years.


I have all my Drives on a software raid 1, so my Seagate drives can die when they want. My data will not be lost.


My Toshiba drives are king, their 5TB drives is one of the fastest HDDs a person can buy. Coming from old Hitachi plants, they are solid as it gets. Just as good if not better than a WD Blue. And I have 3 WD Blues that have a lot of life on them. My WD Blacks on the other hand have nearly a decade on them, and refuse to quit. They are as solid as a HDD can get. Spent their entire life in raid 0 at that. Sadly they are slow compared to my Toshiba 5TB Drive. Which only the New top of the line WD Black can beat, and not by much.

My old Hitachi drives are also doing fine. Only had to RMA my 2TB drive one, and that was because the HDD enclosure it was in cooked it to death. Got rid of the enclosure, drive has been going strong for over 3 years now.


Pretty much stay away from seagate if you can. Toshiba's offerings pretty much beats Seagate's, and packs a better warranty. And better performance.

WD Greens are also something to avoid, have gotten them for people in the past. They fail or just act slow. Get a Blue, Green is not worth it. They kill themselves.

Meanwhile my WD Black died due to the heat this summer (41c day) while my 3TB Seagate stayed strong sitting right next to it. You can't go by brand, at absolute best you're usually going to end up working out that the design of a specific brands drives just doesn't like how your chassis holds them or some other tiny way your rig is set up that's unique. There's plenty of reports showing too low or hot of a temperature being bad, so if you live in an area with temperature extremes obviously work to fix that even if it means giving your HDD poor airflow/directing the exhaust of your CPU, etc past it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Samsung controllers may be fine, but, um. Firmware, anybody? You know, the EVO slowdown bug? And the more recent randomly-deletes-files bug?

That plus the stupid pricing (EVOs are more expensive than a so-called budget SSD should be) make me want to avoid Samsung for the time being. 850 Pro is great, but it's still SATA, and the 950 Pro is phenomenal, but the controller throttles.

You pay for what you get generally..And literally every controller has had firmware issues at one point or another. How they handle it is what matters.
Plus, I'd take the slowdown bug over others because I didn't even notice the effect of it on mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

]

I agree as it's hit or miss. However the stability of 2TB+ is not in Seagate's favor. They have a higher failure rate at higher temperature. The rest, other companies, are more resistant to heat. I have two 4TB Toshiba drives.

Their 4TB drives were rivalling WDs Black line for reliability at one point, it was just their 3TB drives that had a higher failure rate afaik. (Mine's been fine so far, touch wood..Funnily enough surviving the same temperatures that killed my WD Black 1TB)
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdrifter View Post

The thing that's killing Seagate is their reliability. I haven't bought a Seagate drive in years.

No, it's the people who got one of their bad drive lines and continue to perpetuate the myth about their reliability as a result. It's like basing your entire opinion of WD off the Green line..The main issue would be that Seagate doesn't have a separate line for their bad drives. biggrin.gif
    
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post #79 of 88
Anecdotally, my laptop came with a 750gb Seagate drive, which lasted about a year before it started developing bad sectors. As disappointed as I was, it gave me an excuse to upgrade to an SSD, and I'm glad I did.

No other hard drive I've had in the past failed. (Maxtor, Hitachi, WD)
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post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

No, it's the people who got one of their bad drive lines and continue to perpetuate the myth about their reliability as a result. It's like basing your entire opinion of WD off the Green line..The main issue would be that Seagate doesn't have a separate line for their bad drives. biggrin.gif

If you don't believe personal experiences or third party companies' data (BlackBlaze), then of course Seagate drives are just fine. The WD Green drives die from the excessive head parking, for the older drives you can modify the head parking behavior. But now I also avoid the WD Greens because they removed the ability to do that. Another example is OCZ never admitted their drives have issues either, but online retailers' return rate reports and various forum posts shows otherwise. The saddest thing is when Seagate bought Samsung's HDD division, I wish I had money to load up on Samsung drives at the time, those were great drives. I have a Samsung F4 2TB that's still running now, and I rarely turn off my PC.
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