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[RT] Violent, head-to-head crash between Earth and another planet created the moon - Page 7

post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

theory in everyday usage doesn't need to be the scientific definition. wink.gif

It does when we're talking about science...

then that wouldn't be everyday usage, now would it? wink.gif
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post #62 of 72
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Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

If they claimed that they knew what dark matter and dark energy were, then I might agree with you that they're full of it. However, all true astronomers say they do not know what dark energy and dark matter are. They explicitly state that based on observations of matter and energy they can see, and what they know about physics, some sort of matter and energy have to exist to explain certain interactions. It is entirely possible that the interactions are caused by forces we have no knowledge about. It is also entirely possible that there is matter that we aren't able to observe that exists, hence it being called dark matter. "Dark matter" and "dark energy" are simply placeholders until we are able to learn more.
My issue isn't with the theory, it's that a lot of them talk about these things as though they are facts, just like the geocentric model and Newton's idea that light is a particle scattered with ether were treated as facts for centuries. In both cases, things were observed that were not possible under existing models, and then, rather than rethink the models themselves, they made up new concepts to make their flawed models "work" again, and refused to even look at other possibilities. They held back scientific progression for centuries in so doing, and don't say it's because the (enter religion here) made them do it. They all did it, and now even the atheist scientists do it.

Even after Copernicus, most astronomers refused to accept that the Earth went around the Sun until Galileo pointed his telescope at Venus and observed its full disk--something that would never be possible under the Ptolemaic model. An astronomer as good as Tycho Brahe even refused to accept the heliocentric model, and made up his own (although Kepler used Brahe's own work to prove the Copernican model after Brahe's death).

"What we know about physics," at this point is probably less than what Ptolemy knew about the mechanics of the Solar System 2,100 years ago. We should be spending more time on trying to figure things out than on clinging to discredited models by making stuff up to make them "work" again. *Something* is causing what we observe, but there's not a shred of evidence that it has anything to do with matter or energy, dark or otherwise. At the rate we're going, someone will finally approach the problem with a new perspective and figure it out around the year 2600.
     
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post #63 of 72
How is the current lead theory about the earth/moon formation a "discredited model"?
post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

My issue isn't with the theory, it's that a lot of them talk about these things as though they are facts, just like the geocentric model and Newton's idea that light is a particle scattered with ether were treated as facts for centuries. In both cases, things were observed that were not possible under existing models, and then, rather than rethink the models themselves, they made up new concepts to make their flawed models "work" again, and refused to even look at other possibilities. They held back scientific progression for centuries in so doing, and don't say it's because the (enter religion here) made them do it. They all did it, and now even the atheist scientists do it.

Even after Copernicus, most astronomers refused to accept that the Earth went around the Sun until Galileo pointed his telescope at Venus and observed its full disk--something that would never be possible under the Ptolemaic model. An astronomer as good as Tycho Brahe even refused to accept the heliocentric model, and made up his own (although Kepler used Brahe's own work to prove the Copernican model after Brahe's death).

"What we know about physics," at this point is probably less than what Ptolemy knew about the mechanics of the Solar System 2,100 years ago. We should be spending more time on trying to figure things out than on clinging to discredited models by making stuff up to make them "work" again. *Something* is causing what we observe, but there's not a shred of evidence that it has anything to do with matter or energy, dark or otherwise. At the rate we're going, someone will finally approach the problem with a new perspective and figure it out around the year 2600.

What are you talking about? Do you have an agenda against astronomers or something? Do you really think that astronomers 2 millenia ago with access to much more rudimentary instruments know more than we do? Ancient civilizations aren't an ancient, superpowerful, all-knowing people like the Forerunners of Halo.

Nothing well established in science is discredited and "made to work again." They are added on to as more knowledge comes from running additional experiments and observations. Sure, they might be wrong about dark matter and dark energy, but the likelihood of them being wrong is small. Alternative hypotheses have been proposed that do not include additional matter, but they all have flaws in that observation does not support the hypotheses.
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post #65 of 72
I read a book one time that very eloquently suggested that the the moon was an alien placement. Wish I could find that book, it was a good read.
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post #66 of 72
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it does it make a sound?

If the moon rings in space and there is no way to hear it, did it ring?

Maybe its a big phone?

I couldnt not comment. Thats even further out than flat earth.
post #67 of 72
I see a lot of debate is going on between the headon colision theory and the glancing blow one.
In my opinion the glancing blow one is more likley to be true because as far as I know Theia and Earth had very near orbits and to cause a big enough shift to bring them on a headon collision course so quiclky (in the span of an orbit) without destroying Theia seems unlikley.

I want you guys to keep in mind astronomy is meerly a hobby and I have no expiriance in the field so dont't take me seriously. I like to keep my mind busy that's all.
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduZ View Post

I see a lot of debate is going on between the headon colision theory and the glancing blow one.
In my opinion the glancing blow one is more likley to be true because as far as I know Theia and Earth had very near orbits and to cause a big enough shift to bring them on a headon collision course so quiclky (in the span of an orbit) without destroying Theia seems unlikley.

I want you guys to keep in mind astronomy is meerly a hobby and I have no expiriance in the field so dont't take me seriously. I like to keep my mind busy that's all.

are people getting confused by the headline of the article? Media tends to scale things up for a story, so if the scientists said that two planets collided in a way they perceived as boring-sounding, it's pretty reasonable to think the media companies would turn that into a "head-on collision" because it brings images to mind of two cars crashing head on, which is an intense, relate-able event.

edit: apparently the milky way is also due for a "head-on collision" with the andromeda galaxy (our nearest neighbour) in 4B years
post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaduZ View Post

I see a lot of debate is going on between the headon colision theory and the glancing blow one.
In my opinion the glancing blow one is more likley to be true because as far as I know Theia and Earth had very near orbits and to cause a big enough shift to bring them on a headon collision course so quiclky (in the span of an orbit) without destroying Theia seems unlikley.

I want you guys to keep in mind astronomy is meerly a hobby and I have no expiriance in the field so dont't take me seriously. I like to keep my mind busy that's all.

The chaotic early beginnings of the solar system may allow for that. Also, head-on in this instance doesn't necessarily mean that the planets were traveling in opposite directions relative to each other. It simply means that the impact was in the middle of the planets rather than a glancing blow. Additionally, gravitational attraction between the planets would almost ensure that even if they were going in the same direction, the speeds relative to each other would produce a significant impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anti-clockwize View Post

are people getting confused by the headline of the article? Media tends to scale things up for a story, so if the scientists said that two planets collided in a way they perceived as boring-sounding, it's pretty reasonable to think the media companies would turn that into a "head-on collision" because it brings images to mind of two cars crashing head on, which is an intense, relate-able event.

edit: apparently the milky way is also due for a "head-on collision" with the andromeda galaxy (our nearest neighbour) in 4B years

Well the hypothesis in this article is that it is a head on impact. Well, it could also be one planet rear-ending the other at sufficiently high speeds. Or a T-bone.

And yes, the Milky Way is due to impact. Our sun will very likely be dead by that time. Or at least dying.
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post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil View Post


If the moon rings in space and there is no way to hear it, did it ring?
.

Seismometers placed on the surface of the moon to listen to vibrations. We have a few years of data. It "rings like a bell" in the same way a tuning fork continues to vibrate long after the impact is over. Being hollow would be one explanation.

I think it is (allot) more likely that the formation of the moon is a natural astronomical happening, rather than alien intervention...but there is an awful lot of science behind the alien theory, that is amusing and interesting to read about.

Edit: found the book if anybody is interested

http://www.amazon.com/Our-Mysterious-Spaceship-Moon-Wilson/dp/044006550X
Edited by inedenimadam - 2/2/16 at 9:59am
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