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ID Cooling Hunter VC-Twin discussion - Page 2

post #11 of 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

just based on pure guessing, i would say this cooler will not perform any better then the top coolers on the market atm.

while the idea is nice, the physics behind it doesn't really add up. soldering heatpipes into a vapor chamber actually decreases the effectiveness of the vapor chamber itself since the liquid has alot more room to drain to (if mounted in a traditional tower case orientation.) i don't think a soldered heatpipe on a solid copper base will perform any worse even under perfect conditions for the vapor chamber *mounted on desktop orientation where all of the liquid drains back down to the vapor chamber rather then tower orientation where some liquid will drain into the pipes rather then the vapor chamber. )

i could be wrong, but that's just my feeling on how it would work given the physics behind it. a vapor chamber is not "significantly better" then a good sintered heatpipe in terms of cooling since they both use the same principle to carry the heat away from the source.

If you are right, then it may actually be worse than the D15, the R1 Ultimate, and current coolers.

The reason why I think that a vapour chamber being connected is a good idea is because one huge problem with existing coolers is that the "outer" heatpipes are often wasted or don't reach their potential, especially on 4 core CPUs, because the core is so small.

What we need is more data at this point to see. It may be an idea that seemed good on paper, but not as good as it seemed. Ultimately though, real data trumps everything else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

That was what I thought, as well. Which is kind of sad since CM is the only other company doing the vapor chamber thing.....which is most likely due to the fact that it doesn't work very well.

You may be right. I think what we need at this point is a review (after adjusting for noise and perhaps all coolers using the same fan) of this cooler versus the current dual tower champions on the market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by baii View Post

Gpu often use vapor chamber, but those cooler never beat after market cooler(mk26, morpheus) with soldered heatpipes.

Vapor chamber may be better, but it is insigicant compare to thing like fin area and good fans.

I'd love to see the fin densities of existing CPU coolers go up - perhaps to as high as 20 fins per inch or more (the same as top end water cooled).

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Within 10% yeah, but not up to 10 % better. Like I said above, I have it's 300w rated sibling, the Fi-REEX Deluxe (same as Hunter VC 3D) and it performs same as other top coolers. No better, no worse. Considering they rate the FI REEX Dexluxe/Hunter VC 3D single towers at 300 watt and the twin towers at 200 watt, my money would be on the single tower models. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Sngle tower is smaller with 2x fans, cools better, is stronger structure, etc.


I am very curious as to how they got their wattage ratings or if they are totally unreliable. The dual tower should at least on paper have a larger surface area to cool with.
Edited by CrazyElf - 1/31/16 at 5:43pm
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post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

I am very curious as to how they got their wattage ratings or if they are totally unreliable. The dual tower should at least on paper have a larger surface area to cool with.

watts can easily be converted to BTU / hr when calculating thermal energy. all they are saying is the cooler in its stock configuration is capable of removing 300w of thermal energy or 1023.64 BTU/hr given an unspecified set of conditions. normally you would assume STP (standard temperature and pressure)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_conditions_for_temperature_and_pressure

however since this is used in a marketing context rather then a scientific context it's difficult to say what exactly they are measuring by or if it actually holds any truth.
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

lol 300W rating, I wonder what the testing conditions were. Most heat dissipation ratings from companies are either using the Intel TTV (Thermal Test Vehicle) or produced from their backsides, I've seen.
Doesn't matter as long as both were tested using same rating system.
Notice I said 'rating' p

Whatever 'rating' system is, their cooler ratings give us a reasonable way to compare their coolers against each other. Having 'tested' and compared the FI-REEX Deluxe to other leaders of the pack, I can definitely say it is one of them.

The difference between a 200w rated cooler and a 300w rated cooler tested with the same rating system is 50% or 33% depending on how you compare. To me 33% - 50% better cooling on one than the other is a very 'significant' difference.

Knocking 33% off of any of the top coolers and it will no longer be one of the top coolers. biggrin.gif
So by simple deduction, the Hunter VC Twin is not in the leading group of cooler, while the Hunter VC 3D is:thumb:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

If you are right, then it may actually be worse than the D15, the R1 Ultimate, and current coolers.

The reason why I think that a vapour chamber being connected is a good idea is because one huge problem with existing coolers is that the "outer" heatpipes are often wasted or don't reach their potential, especially on 4 core CPUs, because the core is so small.

What we need is more data at this point to see. It may be an idea that seemed good on paper, but not as good as it seemed. Ultimately though, real data trumps everything else.

I am very curious as to how they got their wattage ratings or if they are totally unreliable. The dual tower should at least on paper have a larger surface area to cool with.
It is as good as D15, R1 and other top coolers, current or older. People seem to forget that D14 and Silver Arrow are still in the select group at the top.

The problem I see with vapor chambers is their thin bases are problematic. It is much harder to keep them flat than a solid block. tongue.gif

Add to this the area of contact is still the bottom of the cooler, be it thinner vapor chamber or solid copper. My guess is the thick block of copper can move heat laterally away from center area much better than the thin copper of a heat chamber. Obviously there are many more variables involved making it very hard to hypothesize performance. Example is new Thermalright Macho Direct with HDT (Heatpipe Direct Touch) pipes being below the surface of aluminum block supporting them. Obviously the outer pipes are not in direct contact with CPU chip, yet the cooler does very well. headscratch.gif

I would be very surprised to if their 300w to 250s to 200w differences between coolers is not reasonably accurate. Their is no reason to believe twin towers are better than single towers. Competent testing has proven the many times.
post #14 of 24
The biggest problem I have with cooling is temperature spikes. The total cooling capacity is adequate but it cannot handle the spikes. The water cooling guys all say that the water block on their systems is better at dealing with those spikes as the water draws the heat spike away better than the solid chunk of copper does. Plus the heat pipes don't have much volume. Anyway i am very interested in this for that reason.
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post #15 of 24
Just out of interest here, where did you guys buy this cooler from?

Would love to acquire it off Ebay because of shipping to my place, here in nowheresville.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

The biggest problem I have with cooling is temperature spikes. The total cooling capacity is adequate but it cannot handle the spikes. The water cooling guys all say that the water block on their systems is better at dealing with those spikes as the water draws the heat spike away better than the solid chunk of copper does. Plus the heat pipes don't have much volume. Anyway i am very interested in this for that reason.
Of course the water boys would say that. But where is the proof? Have any of them done any A/B testing of their waterblocks verses top tier air coolers to see if the spikes any different? and if so how much difference? I'm only guessing, but I doubt there is much if any difference. The distance from heat source (CPU chip) to coolant (water in both) is basically the same. Flowing water in loop versus reduced pressure /low boiling point of heatpipe all happening in milliseconds.

After all, 'water boys' have to justify all the money and time they have invested.devil-smiley-019.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrick View Post

Just out of interest here, where did you guys buy this cooler from?

Would love to acquire it off Ebay because of shipping to my place, here in nowheresville.
I got mine out of Taipei but sipping cost is asmall fortune.
Edited by doyll - 2/1/16 at 10:27pm
post #17 of 24
We have had this discussion many times in the AMD forums and I have seen it for myself. The FX 9590 is a very "rough" running cpu and spikes hard. I ran one at 5 ghz for maybe 6 months and we compared my spikes to others who were cooled by custom loops. Their spikes weren't as big as mine were. In fact my spikes were big enough to trip the OCP on 2 different motherboards.

While the 8xxx run much smoother they still spike. I am interested in this design just because it does have the greater volume and might be able to react to the spikes better. Maybe it can't but I want to know.
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post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

We have had this discussion many times in the AMD forums and I have seen it for myself. The FX 9590 is a very "rough" running cpu and spikes hard. I ran one at 5 ghz for maybe 6 months and we compared my spikes to others who were cooled by custom loops. Their spikes weren't as big as mine were. In fact my spikes were big enough to trip the OCP on 2 different motherboards.

While the 8xxx run much smoother they still spike. I am interested in this design just because it does have the greater volume and might be able to react to the spikes better. Maybe it can't but I want to know.
Spike peak height is related to temps involved, and at a guess your air cooler temps are much higher than their H2O temps?
Example H2O running at 34c spikes to 42c. Air running at 50c spikes to 62c. Is that a good guess? tongue.gif
post #19 of 24
Yes and no. It's more like 48C to 58C with a quick drop off compared to 59C to 70C and a slow drop off in temps as the fans ramp up and slowly dissipate the excess heat. When stress testing I got into the habit of setting all fans to 100% and then commenced testing as that made a difference. I no longer have to do that as the spikes are much smaller and don't happen very often.
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post #20 of 24
I was just guessing at temps with same percent spike above baseline heat level. Seems it's not a fixed change, but increases geometrically as temps increase.
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