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ID Cooling Hunter VC-Twin discussion - Page 3

post #21 of 24
No, it's more like I'm pushing my system harder than they are with the air cooling. It just does not have the absolute capacity they do with their custom systems. So when the spike hits it hits me harder and takes a while to recover.

Let me try again. Their argument is that the steady flow of cool water washes away the extra heat from the spike while my system gets saturated and doesn't move the heat away as well. That is why I am interested in coolers with 8mm heat pipes and now this setup. I want the coolant to move up and down the heat pipes as quickly as possible.

For me it isn't how it performs in everyday use but in extreme use. For instance I just finished a many hours long gaming session. The CPU peaked at 58C with an average of 41C, while the GPU peaked at 78C with an average of 66C. The GPU VRMs really took it on the chin too peaking at 83C on stock clocks. For everyday use it's solid but to ensure stability it has to be pushed really hard and that is where those spikes come into play. They have been known to kill CPUs.
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Junkyard Dog
(17 items)
 
Blackie
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen 1700 Biostar X370 GT7 Sapphire Nitro Fury G. Skill Ripjaws ddr4 3200 16 GB 4x4 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 EVO 500gb SSD Western Digital 500gb  Memorex Lightscribe dvd Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 64bit Pixio 27" 1440P yes Seasonic 850 watt  
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone Redline RL05 Evoluent vertical mouse yes Creative X-FI  
Other
Sennheiser headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX8370 @ 5 ghz ASUS Sabertooth Sapphire Fury G Skill F3-14900CL9Q-16GBXL 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Samsung 850 EVO Memorex Lightscribe dvd Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win X 64 bit Pixio 27" 1440P  yes Seasonic SS-850KM Active PFC F3 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Silverstone Redline RL02b Evoluent VM4 yes Creative Soundblaster Z  
Audio
Sennheiser 428 headphones 
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post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Of course the water boys would say that. But where is the proof? Have any of them done any A/B testing of their waterblocks verses top tier air coolers to see if the spikes any different? and if so how much difference? I'm only guessing, but I doubt there is much if any difference. The distance from heat source (CPU chip) to coolant (water in both) is basically the same. Flowing water in loop versus reduced pressure /low boiling point of heatpipe all happening in milliseconds.

After all, 'water boys' have to justify all the money and time they have invested.devil-smiley-019.gif


IMO there is merit to waterblock smoothing out spikes better then air cooler. here is an extreme example of how effective it can be in smoothing out spikes

if you would examine time index of 3:30 to 4:00 on the vid, you will see just how effective a custom liquid cooler(with the help of a chiller) can "shut down" heat due to the constant liquid flow provided by the water pump.

with that said, I would say the advantage is not significant enough on a "normal" custom liquid system to warrant the cost. is there an advantage? yes. but is it worth it? your mileage may vary depending on how extreme your situation is.

the "problem" with air cooler is the heat capacitance of the unit. with liquid cooler, there is enough mass in the form of water to carry alot of thermal capacity. while air cooler is "faster" in transferring the heat (yes heat pipe is faster then water pump when transferring heat) the overall system of the air cooler does not have the thermal capacity to deal with the heat instantaneously. in liquid cooler, the water will simply absorb the heat and carry it away due to the mass of the water where is an air cooler doesn't have that "capacity" to simply absorb the heat and will need the fans to spin up to deal with the heat.

the physics of it is simple. you take a blow torch and put it on full blast on 5 gallons of water for 5 seconds. the water barely gets warm at all since there is a HUGE thermal capacity in that much mass. but you take the same torch and use it on a tablespoon of water... the whole thing will be vaporized in 5 seconds since there is such a small amount of thermal capacity.

the advantage here is not how effective the cooler is. it's the amount of mass/thermal capacity each system has.
post #23 of 24
I think we are basically on similar lines here .
I just think it is a combination of extra cooling as well as the heat levels the CPU is running at baseline when it spikes. Overclocking on air (because air cooling is at or near it's limit) the CPU is running at or near it's peak temperature levels even without spikes. Custom loops (because of having more cooling ability) is what? 10c lower baseline than if running on air? Meaning spikes are not as much higher than load temps no just because of the extra cooling ability, but also because they are not originating from as high a baseline a air. It's hypothesizing so could very well be completely wrong. Would need to run same CPU under both air and H2O to be prove it one way or the other.

Either way, I don't think vapor chambers are significantly if any better than just heatpipes.
post #24 of 24
Custom water saturated slower than air, simply as water have better thermal capacity than air and its mass/volume in a given system. Submerged cooling take similar idea. A large body to absorb the heat.

A quick look of wiki, water can carry 10 times the heat of copper,4 times air per unit mass.

I don't see how a waterblock is different than a base plate soldered to heatpipes. They conduct heat, nothing more, different design may give better performance, but i think the bottleneck usually is at the die/heatspreader/block(less applicable on Amd since they are soldered).
Edited by baii - 2/2/16 at 4:32pm
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