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My CPU has a strange temperature problem.

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Mobo: MSI FM2-A55M-E33(the memory frequency is the stock one, I didn't OC anything)

CPU AMD athlon II x4 740, stock speeds

Cooler:Arctic Freezer 7 pro rev.2(coupled with arctic silver thermal paste)

RAM: 8GB DDR3 kingston hyperx fury(1333 mhz)

GPU: MSI Gtx 750ti(it has a small factory OC)

PSU: Superflower SF-500P12N(500W).


Hello guys! I've been having this issue with my processor since quite some time. I have an AMD athlon II x4 740 processor, and it runs quite hot. Too hot actually. I know that generally CPU's have a max temperature where they can still operate, and mine seems to be achieving it quite a lot, especially when playing demanding games(the new Rise of the Tomb Raider is an example). And this is quite unfortunate because my pc ends up restarting itself due to overheating. Now, I have taken into consideration the possibility of a faulty PSU, but it doesn't quite add up. My psu is pretty new(bought it 3 months ago). Moreover, restarts don't happen randomly, but only when gaming. I think that if the PSU would've been faulty restarts would just happen randomly regardless if I am doing CPU intensive tasks(like rendering or gaming). I used to have this issue even before replacing my PSU.


Now more onto the actual issue. I used to have a stock cooler until like 6 months ago. One day I wanted to check my temperatures, without any reason. Now I have to say that before that I've never checked the temps on my CPU since I bought it(2012). And the temperatures were quite bad. I was idling at 72 degrees C, and when I was running games, it went up to 94 C. And that's on a non overclocked CPU. Now my common sense told me that something is not right. I thought it was the thermal paste, so I changed it. But even so the CPU was still running too hot. The temps only dropped by about 5 degrees.

The next logical step would've been implying that the cooler is the problem here. It was a stock cooler after all so how good could it be? So I bought a new one an Arctic Freezer 7 pro rev.2. Now with an aftermarket cooler I thought that my temps are gonna decrease. I even read multiple reviews, and all CPU's performed relatively well using it, hitting normal temps. After I installed it however, my temps did decrease but not by a lot. Now I am idling at 55 degrees C, going up to 74 when gaming/70 while using chrome sometimes. Which is still too high. I mean my computer still restarts from time to time(only when gaming) due to overheating. I checked the other temps, and they are all fine(60 degrees max on my gpu). I also have pretty good airflow into my case(2 intake 120mm fans and 2 exhaust 120mm fans), so I don't think that airflow is an issue. Heck I don't think that even the cooler itself is an issue, because apparently it worked good for other buyers.

I tried reversing the factory OC that I have on my GPU, because I thought that maybe this is the issue. But regardless of it, the PC still crashed itself after a couple of minutes of gaming. I tested both my gpu/cpu with prime95 and heaven benchmark/furmark and much to my surprise neither of them caused a crash, and neither of them had any bad results.

I got different results when it came to temps. Speccy, hwinfo64, and hwmonitor all show me the same temps(50-55 idle, 70 and above under full load). Other programs dont work or show me screwed up values. These 3 seem to be closest to my bios's reading which is 47 degrees. I also tested with amd overdrive and the thermal margin is 42 degrees under heavy load. It doesnt make any sense. The CPU once it hits 70 degrees which from what I know is its max temp it only stays working for about 15 mins then it restarts my whole PC.

I even tried scanning for viruses, and reseating my Cooler and cpu, and with no results so far.

I don't know what to do anymore. Could it be a faulty CPU? Or maybe another issue?
post #2 of 25
The Arctic Freezer 7 is not all that good of a cooler so its not a huge suprise your temps are still high.
But you did remember to clean off and remove the old cooling paste and add some new paste when you replaced the cooler right?

If you did not then there is your problem.
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post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Yep I did clean the thermal paste with alcohol, and replaced it with new paste.
post #4 of 25
*
Edited by shilka - 1/31/16 at 3:05am
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post #5 of 25
Your temperatures are abnormal. The CPU is just 65W and the Arctic Freezer 7 is rated for 150W (i actually have that cooler).

The motherboard is this one?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130661

My opinion (assuming you know how to properly apply the right amount of thermal paste) is that the motherboard is the problem. That's why you have ample thermal margin, but high socket temp. There are 2 mosfets per phase, unheatsinked and knowing MSI, they probably use Nikos mosfets that heat more. Being close to the socket, it raises CPU temp.

Solutions to try:
1) Undervolt (you need to stress test to find the lowest stable voltage).
2) Put a fan to blow on the VRM area of the motherboard and see if this drops temperatures.
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post #6 of 25
I think you´re looking at the VRM temperatures (they are mapped to TMP2) on that board. I´ve had to return three lots of A68HM-E33 motherboards (intended for reviews) with identical VRM structure, because the VRM overheated even with 65W APUs. This motherboard has three CPU VRM phases, with a single high and low-side fet in each phase. The VRM reached throttling temperature (102 or 105°C IIRC) after 5 minutes of stress.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
I see. I ran another test with Rise of the Tomb Raider(one of those games which I noticed that restarts my PC). This time I watched my temps very very carefully. The game ran fine for half an hour when the temps were hitting ~68 degrees. I tried raising it higher to see if it restarts or not. The immediate second it reached 72/73 it restarted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

I think you´re looking at the VRM temperatures (they are mapped to TMP2) on that board. I´ve had to return three lots of A68HM-E33 motherboards (intended for reviews) with identical VRM structure, because the VRM overheated even with 65W APUs. This motherboard has three CPU VRM phases, with a single high and low-side fet in each phase. The VRM reached throttling temperature (102 or 105°C IIRC) after 5 minutes of stress.

Im sorry but I dont understand everything you said. Still from what I managed to understand I get that the MOBO may be faulty and cause the CPU overheating. Good to know, I'll never go with msi again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

Your temperatures are abnormal. The CPU is just 65W and the Arctic Freezer 7 is rated for 150W (i actually have that cooler).

The motherboard is this one?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130661

My opinion (assuming you know how to properly apply the right amount of thermal paste) is that the motherboard is the problem. That's why you have ample thermal margin, but high socket temp. There are 2 mosfets per phase, unheatsinked and knowing MSI, they probably use Nikos mosfets that heat more. Being close to the socket, it raises CPU temp.

Solutions to try:
1) Undervolt (you need to stress test to find the lowest stable voltage).
2) Put a fan to blow on the VRM area of the motherboard and see if this drops temperatures.

Funnily enough I did underclock my CPU a bit with the hope that it may reduce temp. I don't feel like messing with voltages tho, as I've never OC'ed, and I'm scare that I might break something.

I will eventually get an I5, but that will be only in june. Guess that I can do only light gaming until then.
Edited by Raspharus - 1/31/16 at 3:56am
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspharus View Post

Funnily enough I did underclock my CPU a bit with the hope that it may reduce temp. I don't feel like messing with voltages tho, as I've never OC'ed, and I'm scare that I might break something.

I will eventually get an I5, but that will be only in june. Guess that I can do only light gaming until then.

All AMD CPUs come let's say "overvolted" at stock clock. Some motherboards can actually accentuate this. Undervolting doesn't break anything. It's like overclocking in reverse. Well, if you don't make sure you are stable at the lower voltage, it will cause instability. It's the lowest voltage at which you can run stable at a given clock. Undervolting has much bigger effect to temperatures than underclocking, because power consumption is proportional to the clock and to the SQUARE of the voltage. So if you drop the voltage, you get much bigger benefit than dropping just the clock. The scope of undervolting is to lower the heat without losing stock performance (without lowering the clock).

The only thing to undervolt, is go to BIOS and lower the CPU voltage. How much? As long as you can bass stress tests, you are good. For quick testing:

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/13202

^ If you pass this at "Very High" or "Max", you can lower one more notch. Go as low in voltage as you can, as long as you pass. BUT, keep an eye on temperatures. If you see you are hitting 70C, abort. I don't know the APUs,but i would start by dropping the voltage by 0.05v compared to stock. You will also have to disable turbo in BIOS.

That's about it...

The problem of that motherboard, isn't that it may be "faulty". It's that it has poor VRM structure. For AMD CPUs, it's always best to avoid very cheap Asrocks and MSIs and prefer ASUS and Gigabytes.

EDIT:

I buy cheap motherboards, but my rule of thumb is: "No Asrock or MSI below 55 euros, unless it's for a simple office build". Your motherboard was selling for considerably less than 50 euros here, so no wonder it has problems even at stock. Asrock and MSI cut costs on things that affect the heat of the motherboard.

I actually found this price of the time (since it's no longer sold):



^ For a 33 euro motherboard from MSI or Asrock, you get what you pay for. I wouldn't ever buy such a cheap motherboard to play (and trust me, i am all for cheap motherboards, but within reason for their purpose). If i was to buy it, i 'd put a 20W GPU on it and put it for an office build that only uses MS Word and surfs the internet.
Edited by Undervolter - 1/31/16 at 4:57am
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post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Mate thanks for your suggestions. You are the first one in many tries to finally explain what was truly wrong.

I know that what I went with was cheap, and I guess that 4 years are more than enough for this mobo. I will change it along with the cpu in june, but until then I still need to use this pc, more or less.


Should I go ahead with the undervolting or just leave it be?

Also, for my future i5, can you recommend me a good MOBO? You seem knowledgeable in this domain.
Edited by Raspharus - 1/31/16 at 5:17am
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspharus View Post

Mate thanks for your suggestions. You are the first one in many tries to finally explain what was truly wrong.

I know that what I went with was cheap, and I guess that 4 years are more than enough for this mobo. I will change it along with the cpu in june, but until then I still need to use this pc, more or less.


Should I go ahead with the undervolting or just leave it be?

I 'd definitely undervolt on that motherboard in your position. If not for anything else, to prevent catastrophic failure. For example, if due to the heat, a mosfet burns, there is always chance that it will burn the CPU too. When you lower the voltage, you lower the stress on the mosfets too. So if you don't mind following the somewhat tedious procedure of lowering voltage-stresstesting and repeating, you should undervolt. But like i said, keep an eye on temperatures, because given how feeble this motherboard is, i wouldn't want for the stress test to... kill the motherboard.

So, i 'd say that if you lower (for starters) voltage by 0.05, run IBT at Very High and see temp above 70C, abort, go back to stock values, cross fingers and wait till June to upgrade everything.

EDIT: I am not really knowledgeable with current Intel motherboards to suggest a good model for i5. So it's better if you say your price point and someone more familiar with Intel can tell you what's the best for that money.
Edited by Undervolter - 1/31/16 at 5:21am
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