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[OC3D] Seagate Hit with Class Action Lawsuit for High Failure Rates - Page 16

post #151 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingamajig View Post

I'd like to know how they got to those charts/figures.


Because if this is based on recalls or warranty returns, it's probably unfairly scaled in Hitachi's favor - i've no idea how popular their drives are, but i'd wager seagates are commonplace among the private consumer, so of course, Seagate would have a larger occurance of failures simply because they're the most common on the market -- more chances of failure obviously.

Not that i'm defending Seagate, just calling out the potential for how these graphs can be skewed.


I'd wager the vast majority of people here either use (or know others who use) A seagate or WD drive over that of Hitachi, after all.

Yes they have way more Seagate drivers but its % failure not amount.
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post #152 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Which WD because Green is was then Seagate.
It's WD Blue. Green was cheaper but Seagate is priced $5 more than WD Blue here. Then there is WD Black I think which costs almost double.
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post #153 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by parityboy View Post

Yep, it was the 7200.11 1.5TB version. 7200.9s were actually OK, at least in my experience. smile.gif

I don't think it was capacity related, it was supposedly a firmware issue. I had to RMA a 500G 7200.11 three times. The third time I sent the RMA department an email begging for anything but another of the same. They sent me a newer 500G which has been running fine for probably 4 years now.

Their RMA department was pretty efficient, they turned around the replacements in just a few days.
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post #154 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfromcolo View Post

I don't think it was capacity related, it was supposedly a firmware issue. I had to RMA a 500G 7200.11 three times. The third time I sent the RMA department an email begging for anything but another of the same. They sent me a newer 500G which has been running fine for probably 4 years now.

Their RMA department was pretty efficient, they turned around the replacements in just a few days.

If anything Seagate RMA has been the best RMA experience I have had. WD was not bad either but it took longer. If other brands handles RMA the same way it would be such a easy things to do.
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post #155 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

If anything Seagate RMA has been the best RMA experience I have had. WD was not bad either but it took longer. If other brands handles RMA the same way it would be such a easy things to do.

I suppose it just depends where you are. For me WD has always felt smoother in terms of RMA, but in truth in my experience I can't complain about Seagate - my only gripe was covering postage for Maxtor OneTouch Turbo IIIs when their drive units failed REPEATEDLY. mad.gif
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post #156 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

You got to remember that reason people even get Seagate is because they are widely available and cheap.

And? You get a longer warranty with WD typically. I can't speak for Seagate but I know WDs RMA service is top notch, too.
AMD cards are typically a little cheaper than nVidia for equivalent performance but they certainly aren't of lower quality. nVidia's price premium includes stuff like CUDA, G-Sync, PhysX and the perception of better drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

I fail to see how this impacts my statement whatsoever.

I was merely pointing out that while worst case tests like these might not be representative of home use, they are a still a good indicator of reliability when it comes to conditions where reliability actually matters (those being non ideal conditions, where failure is much more common).

Furthermore, it is probably fair to say that anyone who is running enough drives with enough activity where long term reliability would actually come into effect would have conditions fairly analogous to those of a datacenter.

The laptop user who drops their drives frequently will have a different story, sure, but they should also already know that drops are a disaster to any moving drive, and should opt for a SSD if they actually care about reliability on a mobile device.

The guy with a single 5tb drive in his HTPC with no other moving parts and a UPS probably doesn't have to worry about vibrations and 24/7 usage, sure, but he also probably doesn't have to worry about drive reliability either, at least not as much as having a quiet drive and a sensible backup plan.

It's the guy with the 10 HDDs in a single system with several fans and/or liquid pumps running his system as a 24/7 server or NAS is the guy who needs to really worry about drive reliability, and that guy has very similar conditions to backblaze.

In short, I'm saying backblaze reliability reports are a good indicator of real-world reliability for users who actually have real cause for concern in the first place.

The issue is more with how the results are received and generally reported. People completely fail to notice one of their most recommended drives for reliability is actually a Seagate 4TB..And that these results don't show home use very well at all, especially given that nearly all of these drives would be past their useful life-time (Or practically due for a replacement either way due to advances. Heck, in the time a Seagate 3TB like mine has lasted we've gone from 120GB drives being AU~$300 or so for a good one to AU~$100, with 3D-NAND, M.2 and NVMe it'd be entirely possible that a 2TB HDD could be replaced with a 2GB/s SSD for a reasonable cost would be out after a similar amount of time for anyone buying a HDD today. I fully expect that my 4TB WD Elements will be the last time I need to go HDD for an external drive while still having multiple TBs of storage.

Plus, using external drives is an entirely different ballgame than internal drives, they use the same drives but these are usually semi-custom designed (Less cache, etc) or just grabbed from surplus stock especially if they lack at least USB3.0 because USB2.0 specs mean they can put a vastly slower HDD in to get rid of old stock without performance figures changing much if at all. They're still SATA drives yes, but they may not be to the requirements of an internal HDD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

My only Seagate drive sometimes doesn't want to turn on all the way, it clicks but doesn't spin up. I do have it running through a janky external SATA to USB controller though.

Of all my WD drives, one did fail after a few years of use (this was like in 2004), but my 1 TB Black is trucking along fine since 2009. All the other WD drives I've had in my house all still work... Even my old 80 GB PATA drive, I still use for Windows installs.

In like 2001 I had a Maxtor drive fail...

Meanwhile I've got 3 80GB Seagate IDE drives that still work with a few reallocated sectors, two of which are used. Meanwhile the brand new 80GB IDE WD I got brand new before that Seagate died within a few months of usage as an OS drive with an Athlon XP. Ask eight different users and you'll have 8 different reliability ratings of each HDD maker. Personally, if I just want mass at least semi-replaceable storage I go for Seagate but if I want performance and to have a long warranty I go WD Black, I still buy Samsung for 2.5" and try to stay away from Green drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twist86 View Post

Wow it's a sad day when Hitachi is out performing others.....remember when even Best Buy geeks called them Deathstars.

Can't have anything to do with the passage of time since those drives launched and having different manufacturing methods, more knowledge, different/better engineers, etc at all.

Seriously, the drive that made the Deathstar name launched in 2001. It's still kinda funny but it says nothing about any company now...By the way, it was IBM that launched it too, not Hitachi.
    
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post #157 of 261
I refuse to buy Seagate after so many failures over the years. Western Digital or HGST now for me.
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post #158 of 261
I remember the day when my Seagate 7200.10 Barracuda drive in my first build died on me after only 4 months of normal-to-moderate use.

My Western Digital Caviar Green 1Tb I purchased as its replacement is still working just fine after 5 years.
post #159 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by iAmCodeMonkey View Post

I remember the day when my Seagate 7200.10 Barracuda drive in my first build died on me after only 4 months of normal-to-moderate use.

My Western Digital Caviar Green 1Tb I purchased as its replacement is still working just fine after 5 years.

mine 2t green has multiple platter bad blocks so I made a smaller partition drive is like 7 years old
no more hot swapping usb n knocking the table lol
post #160 of 261
Has there been a discussion in this thread about whether Seagate should actually be sued for this? Or that it would uphold in court?

Has Seagate not upheld the terms of the warranty?

If Seagate produces in-house data supporting their cited MTBF averages, is the data from BackBlaze -- and all the conditions surrounding it -- sufficient to refute Seagate's data?

I am genuinely curious.

Anybody an actual lawyer here?
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