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[OC3D] Seagate Hit with Class Action Lawsuit for High Failure Rates - Page 22

post #211 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

did you even read what i said? seriously whats up with all these guys failing to comprehend posts, well not like i'm one to talk.

the platter density should be the culprit as to why the 5400RPM drive writes faster than the 7200RPM drive.
in this case, the 5400RPM drive has double density than the 7200RPM drive.

e.g.
track 1MB * 7200RPM (120 revolutions per second) = 120MB/s
track 2MB * 5400RPM (90 revolutions per second) = 180MB/s


for anyone who doesn't know what "track" means.

I never see anywhere proves WD 5400 has higher density than Seagate/other 7200, but I can show you real benchmark that Seagate/other 7200 seq read speed is much faster than WD green seq read speed:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/hdd-charts-2013/-01-Read-Throughput-Average-h2benchw-3.16,2901.html
You can see 7200 average seq speed in general is around 140 to 150 while green is only around 100. This is a big different.
Edited by espn - 2/15/16 at 12:47am
post #212 of 261
This guy is clearly on another planet...
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

The fact is that if I random pick a wd model then on average the chance of fail is higher than all other brands in the chart. seagate 3tb is the only one which is far worse than other, if we pull that out then just let seagate increases its ranking but wd is still the worst.
You need to learn how to read data.

One could go into the data and see that this claim is untrue, or they could make broad generalizations based on that graph and still see the this is untrue:

Seagate over time = 11 + 13 + 5 = 29/3 = 9.66% average failure rate for all drives tested per year over time
WD over time = 5 + 6 + 8 = 19/3 = 6.3% average failure rate for all drives tested per year over time
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Why blue is 5400 while Seagate and Other are faster with similar price? And actually wd has the worst fail rate.
You are living in 2003 and no, they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

I don't see a big different the yearly contribution between WD and the rest. You can show your analysis if you want.
doh.gif

Quote:
A much slower HDD of course consumes less power and I don't think this is a solid selling point. If it can have same speed but use much less power then it is advanced.
This is easily the biggest selling point of intelliseek...
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

If you look at the graph, WD is worse, then WD should get lawsuit instead of Seagate? LOL
Again, you are misinterpreting the data. Where is the WD drive that failed at 116%? 24%? 29%?
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Tom hardware has a clear testing results compare. 7200 is definitely much faster than green for sequence speed. I am working so no time to show the data, you can go to Tom hardware to have a look.
One post - Tom's is lying because they have interest in protecting Seagate.
Next post - Toms knows the truth of all HDDs.

Sequence speed means little in real world workloads - go read those Tom's reviews again and instead of just looking at the pretty graphs try reading the claims that illustrate the pictures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

I never see anywhere proves WD 5400 has higher density than Seagate/other 7200,
rolleyes.gif
Quote:
but I can show you real benchmark that Seagate/other 7200 seq read speed is much faster than WD green seq read speed:

You can see 7200 average seq speed in general is around 140 to 150 while green is only around 100. This is a big different.
What's up with all those 5900rpm drives? How come that 6TB green does so well?

http://blog.macsales.com/11825-when-slower-is-actually-faster
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-higher-rpm-hard-drives-rip-you-off/
http://www.seagate.com/tech-insights/choosing-high-performance-storage-is-not-about-rpm-anymore-master-ti/
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/perf/spec/postransAreal-c.html

The trend is towards increasing density, particularly given the rise of SSDs for system drives.
Edited by claes - 2/15/16 at 1:03am
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post #213 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

The 5400 rpm Blues are replacing the older Greens which were designed to use less power. Unless you move massive amounts of data at a time, you will not notice the speed difference. the Greens, no Blues, were designed to consume low amounts of power, hence the lower speed.

As far as the WDs doing worse, if you read the full report, you will see that the WDs that failed had been in service for several years.

I don't see a big different the yearly contribution between WD and the rest. You can show your analysis if you want. A much slower HDD of course consumes less power and I don't think this is a solid selling point. If it can have same speed but use much less power then it is advanced. 5400 vs 7200 RPM is a pretty big different for sequence reading/writing which is what we mainly use now for HDD.

It's not my analysis; it's Backblaze's. Look up the full report, not just the chart everyone bandies about.
     
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post #214 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

This lawsuit should cover every drive Seagate ever sold over the past six years...

If you look at the graph, WD is worse, then WD should get lawsuit instead of Seagate? LOL

Ok, this is getting out of hand. Here a link to the full report. If you will take the time to READ it—all of it—you will find that the bulk of the WD Greens have the oldest average life—4.4 years—with an annual failure rate of only 3.6%. The Seagate drives' annual failure rates range from 3.8% to 25%. When you consider that the Greens were never designed to be run 24/7 or run in RAID, they performed remarkably well, lasting past twice the length of their warranty period.
     
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post #215 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Ok, this is getting out of hand. Here a link to the full report. If you will take the time to READ it—all of it—you will find that the bulk of the WD Greens have the oldest average life—4.4 years—with an annual failure rate of only 3.6%. The Seagate drives' annual failure rates range from 3.8% to 25%. When you consider that the Greens were never designed to be run 24/7 or run in RAID, they performed remarkably well, lasting past twice the length of their warranty period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Ok, this is getting out of hand. Here a link to the full report. If you will take the time to READ it—all of it—you will find that the bulk of the WD Greens have the oldest average life—4.4 years—with an annual failure rate of only 3.6%. The Seagate drives' annual failure rates range from 3.8% to 25%. When you consider that the Greens were never designed to be run 24/7 or run in RAID, they performed remarkably well, lasting past twice the length of their warranty period.

Look at the data,most of WD are very new 3tb or 4tb, old 1tb green are just very small percentage of WD. There are much more old 1tb, 2tb seagate hdd in the stats. Actually this stats let WD has unfair advantage. Look at 2015 and the result is very clear:

blog_q3stats_manufacturer-e1444680042365.jpg
post #216 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

Ok, this is getting out of hand. Here a link to the full report. If you will take the time to READ it—all of it—you will find that the bulk of the WD Greens have the oldest average life—4.4 years—with an annual failure rate of only 3.6%. The Seagate drives' annual failure rates range from 3.8% to 25%. When you consider that the Greens were never designed to be run 24/7 or run in RAID, they performed remarkably well, lasting past twice the length of their warranty period.
...Look at the data,most of WD are very new 3tb or 4tb, old 1tb green are just very small percentage of WD. There are much more old 1tb, 2tb seagate hdd in the stats. Actually this stats let WD has unfair advantage. Look at 2015 and the result is very clear:

blog_q3stats_manufacturer-e1444680042365.jpg

No the result is NOT very clear if all you do is look at that one chart. All that chart shows is how many drives from a certain manufacturer failed in a certain year without any consideration to the age of the drives when they failed. Again, read the ENTIRE report! Here is the link for the latest one, the one with that chart so many of you are obsessed with. The report points out that the WDs started failing because they are old, for crying out loud.

Look at this chart in the report and notice the age of the drives vs. the failure rates..



A large percentage of the WDs are pushing six or even seven years old. This from the report:

"The Western Digital 1TB drives in use are nearly 6 years old on average. There are several drives with nearly 7 years of service. It wasn’t until 2015 that the failure rate rose above the annual average for all drives. This makes sense given the “bathtub” curve of drive failure where drives over 4 years start to fail at a higher rate. Still the WD 1TB drives have performed well for a long time."
Edited by Lady Fitzgerald - 2/15/16 at 11:25am
     
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post #217 of 261
Glad to hear it! I've been burned many times by them and always thought they had a bad failure rate. My Hitachi drives in raid-0 have been solid for many years now!
post #218 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

No the result is NOT very clear if all you do is look at that one chart. All that chart so is how many drives from a certain manufacturer failed in a certain year without any consideration to the age of the drives when they failed. Again, read the ENTIRE report! Here is the link for the latest one, the one with that chart so many of you are obsessed with. The report points out that the WDs started failing because they are old, for crying out loud.

Look at this chart in the report and notice the age of the drives vs. the failure rates..



A large percentage of the WDs are pushing six or even seven years old. This from the report:

"The Western Digital 1TB drives in use are nearly 6 years old on average. There are several drives with nearly 7 years of service. It wasn’t until 2015 that the failure rate rose above the annual average for all drives. This makes sense given the “bathtub” curve of drive failure where drives over 4 years start to fail at a higher rate. Still the WD 1TB drives have performed well for a long time."

There are just 558 WD 1TB which is not a big percentage of WD in the sheet. Look at 1.5TB, Seagate has around 2,500 which are also around 70 months as well. You can do the exact calculation but I don't see old WD % is more than old Seagate %. Then this 2015 data tells you the story already:


If we don't count 3TB seagate, it should be somewhere around Toshiba area.
Edited by espn - 2/15/16 at 10:52am
post #219 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by espn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

No the result is NOT very clear if all you do is look at that one chart. All that chart so (shows) is how many drives from a certain manufacturer failed in a certain year without any consideration to the age of the drives when they failed. Again, read the ENTIRE report! Here is the link for the latest one, the one with that chart so many of you are obsessed with. The report points out that the WDs started failing because they are old, for crying out loud.

Look at this chart in the report and notice the age of the drives vs. the failure rates..



A large percentage of the WDs are pushing six or even seven years old. This from the report:

"The Western Digital 1TB drives in use are nearly 6 years old on average. There are several drives with nearly 7 years of service. It wasn’t until 2015 that the failure rate rose above the annual average for all drives. This makes sense given the “bathtub” curve of drive failure where drives over 4 years start to fail at a higher rate. Still the WD 1TB drives have performed well for a long time."

There are just 558 WD 1TB which is not a big percentage of WD in the sheet. Look at 1.5TB, Seagate has around 2,500 which are also around 70 months as well. You can do the exact calculation but I don't see old WD % is more than old Seagate %. Then this 2015 data tells you the story already:


If we don't count 3TB seagate, it should be somewhere around Toshiba area.

Again with that chart already. All that tells you... Oh, never mind, I've already explained it to you. You apparently are just incapable of "getting it'!
     
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Corsair AX760 Scratch built. Currently under construction at ... Logitech M525 El Cheapo Allsop hard plastic 
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i7-3930k ASUS P9X79 WS MSI R7850 Twin Frozr 2GD5/OC Radeon HD 7850 2GB... Monoprice 1x2 powered HDMI Splitter 
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Kingston HyperX 32GB (8 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDR... 128GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 
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4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD 4TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD LG 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Inter... COOLER MASTER GeminII S524 120mm Long Life Slee... 
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Windows 7 Ultimate 3 x Asus VG248QE Vizio VO320E 32" TV Logitech G510s 
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post #220 of 261
Problem I have with WD is they have so many different drive. I want general purpose now specific drives.
Ishimura
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Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
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Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AMD Radeon R9 16GB DDR3-2400MHz  
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SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
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4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
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eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
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Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
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Sony XB950BT 
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AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
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OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
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EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
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NZXT Switch 810  
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Ishimura
(21 items)
 
Silent Knight
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz ASRock Z77E-ITX eVGA GTX 1080 Ti Hybrid AMD Radeon R9 16GB DDR3-2400MHz  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
SanDisk Ultra II 960GB Toshiba X300 5TB Corsair H100i GTX eVGA Hybrid Water Cooler  
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
4x GentleTyphoon AP-15 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC 4K Razer BlackWidow Chroma  
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
eVGA SuperNOVA 750 G3 Define Nano S Logitech G502 Proteus Core PECHAM Gaming Mouse Pad XX-Large 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Audioengine D1 DAC Mackie CR Series CR3 Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Sennheiser HD 598 
Audio
Sony XB950BT 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II X4 955 @ 4.2GHz ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB @ 1200/1500 2x 4GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
OCZ Agility 3 60GB WD Caviar Green 1.5TB 2 x Seagate Barracuda 2TB XSPC Raystorm 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
EK-FC7970 XSPC RS360 Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit Corsair TX750 
Case
NZXT Switch 810  
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