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[OC3D] Seagate Hit with Class Action Lawsuit for High Failure Rates - Page 5

post #41 of 261
Why only on the 3tb ? All their drives fail not just the 3tb, and in my experience the 3tb+ wears better than the lower capacity drives.... I never had a drive 100% die and never expect to.
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post #42 of 261
The problem drive is the ST3000DM001. These drives really are not as good as normal Seagate drives, at least based on my own anecdotal evidence in addition to Backblaze'es. tongue.gif

I have RAIDs of many of Seagates earlier lines that are still running today (past firmware issues aside).

I had 8 of these 3TBs used in a RAID but I knew they were not meant for RAID. 3 out of the 8 died in less than a year and were RMA'ed before I pulled them all and bought new NAS drives, I gave them all away because I didn't want to deal with them. They were in vibration damped enclosures with 4 drives per "module" but they did feel some vibration from each other.

Now there is probably something different about their firmware, they are not vibration tolerant, and their MTBF is based on 8h a day usage but they are still bad drives in my mind. I would buy other Seagate drives but not the ST3000DM001.

Backblaze does abuse them a lot but other drives do not start dropping like flies in Backblaze'es environment.
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post #43 of 261
wait, who filed the lawsuit?
post #44 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by s-x View Post

The data is coming from backblaze, a company that buys external HDD's rips them from their chassis and sticks them into servers. This does not represent 99% of consumer use.

Doesn't matter.

Other drives survive these conditions far more readily than these Seagate models. That tells us that there is something inferior about the reliability of these models.

BlackBlazes least protective pods seem to be an excellent stress test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

If all their drives undergo the same stress then it is reliable as they are all in the same environment and there is no bias.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

if seagates are that horrible then why do they kept buying / using them while having majority of their drives as seagates

If they cost 10% less than they can get the other drives for when they buy Seagate drives, and have solid backup practices, it's worth it even if they have the worst failure rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

Because of that, Seagate is going to have a really bad reputation. So, the damage has already been done in that aspect.

Which is good, because several of their models fail more often than almost anything else, circumstances being equal.

Their warranty service has also taken a nose dive in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragneel View Post

I know it's just anecdotal but I've never had a seagate drive die. Granted I am using a couple of their 500gb drives from like 5-6 years ago which I assume fail less than the 1TB+ ones.

I have an early Seagate 7200.10 with over 60k power on hours and no sign of issues what so ever...but I also have fifteen plus dead Seagate drives that aren't as old, some of which went through two or three RMAs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothergoose729 View Post

A company has an obligation to advertise their products ethically. If they promise a particular mean time to failure and don't deliver then they are misleading the consumer.

MTBF is completely misleading an not remotely representative of real drives from any manufacturer. They are all guilty of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

Backblaze does abuse them a lot but other drives do not start dropping like flies in Backblaze'es environment.

Which is strongly suggestive that these other drives are more reliable, which means the Seagate drives are less reliable.
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post #45 of 261
That is a lot, I'm glad I keep my stuff double back up.
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post #46 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Doesn't matter.

Other drives survive these conditions far more readily than these Seagate models. That tells us that there is something inferior about the reliability of these models.

BlackBlazes least protective pods seem to be an excellent stress test.

Which is strongly suggestive that these other drives are more reliable, which means the Seagate drives are less reliable.

Question isn't if Seagate drives are less reliable in a stressful non-consumer environment, it's if Seagate drives are less reliable in regular consumer use, something that Blackbalze's data cannot tell us. I'm not arguing that Seagate drives tend to fail more in Blackblaze, all it shows is that Seagate probably has lower tolerances. But is that tolerance level low enough that it impacts consumer reliability?
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post #47 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvarado View Post

I mean is that actually true? 15% failure seems insane.
My laptop Seagate is reported as BAD by SMART and Pred Fail by WMIC. Too much reallocated sectors for too short time.
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post #48 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

wait, who filed the lawsuit?

Class action lawsuit means an attorney filed a lawsuit in behalf of EVERYONE and got aproved by a judge
post #49 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by s-x View Post

The data is coming from backblaze, a company that buys external HDD's rips them from their chassis and sticks them into servers. This does not represent 99% of consumer use. It's very misleading to go by their data, as it would be like taking a soccer goalie and playing him as a forward, the skill sets are vastly different. For all we know, seagate may handle head parking and power loss much better than hitachi, but since backblaze runs the hdd's 24/7 it wouldnt show up in the report.
This is entirely inaccurate - many of BB's drives don't see use for years...
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

backblaze abuses drives beyond their designed environment and backblaze data are extremely inaccurate and bias where people who know better just takes it at face value with a grain of salt.
conjecture is not a warrant
Quote:
if seagates are that horrible then why do they kept buying / using them while having majority of their drives as seagates
They are cheap and don't need to last long, as per their model.
Quote:
using the drives beyond their design environment alone voids their claim along with warranty and other clauses for the suit and in sure the fineprint is enough to cover their arses for this.
This isn't really relevant in terms of a consumer lawsuit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

The problem drive is the ST3000DM001. These drives really are not as good as normal Seagate drives, at least based on my own anecdotal evidence in addition to Backblaze'es. tongue.gif

I have RAIDs of many of Seagates earlier lines that are still running today (past firmware issues aside).

I had 8 of these 3TBs used in a RAID but I knew they were not meant for RAID. 3 out of the 8 died in less than a year and were RMA'ed before I pulled them all and bought new NAS drives, I gave them all away because I didn't want to deal with them. They were in vibration damped enclosures with 4 drives per "module" but they did feel some vibration from each other.

Now there is probably something different about their firmware, they are not vibration tolerant, and their MTBF is based on 8h a day usage but they are still bad drives in my mind. I would buy other Seagate drives but not the ST3000DM001.

Backblaze does abuse them a lot but other drives do not start dropping like flies in Backblaze'es environment.
THIS EXACTLY. 7200.11 all over again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3G4T1v3 View Post

You do realize that the whole ripping the drive out of the external was during the floods, which create a huge HDD shortage. They needed to maintain their HDD growth rate, so they bought what ever they could get their hands on. This is now long ago enough for this no longer to happening.
Yes, they do still use customer grade drives, but all drives are under the same conditions, more Seagate drives failing point to an issue with Seagate
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by airisom2 View Post

From Backblaze:
Title of article: "Farming hard drives: how Backblaze weathered the Thailand drive crisis" doh.gif
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post #50 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by ku4eto View Post

My laptop Seagate is reported as BAD by SMART and Pred Fail by WMIC. Too much reallocated sectors for too short time.

Have two SeaGate Momentus XT 750GB in my laptop. 12'000h~ of powered state and a lot in use. Still perfectly fine.
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