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[OC3D] Seagate Hit with Class Action Lawsuit for High Failure Rates - Page 6

post #51 of 261
This lawsuit, and the issue, they're are about a very specific set of drives. A set I avoided when I bought my Seagate 4TB. But yeah, no such luck for the people who bought before backblaze did their reporting.

Now I'm not a legal guy so I have no clue how the legal reality of the case looks like, just hope all parties involved will come to an acceptable agreement.
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post #52 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyStarV View Post

Question isn't if Seagate drives are less reliable in a stressful non-consumer environment, it's if Seagate drives are less reliable in regular consumer use, something that Blackbalze's data cannot tell use.

A less durable part is going to fail more often, even in light loads. Overall failure rates will go down, but a discrepancy will remain.

Stress tests do reveal weaknesses that are generally representative, it's just compresses them into smaller timescales.
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post #53 of 261
Dispelling Backblaze's HDD Reliability Myth

The lawsuit is not bad. Might be the best for us but still I don't trust the backblaze study.
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post #54 of 261

Working daily with about a hundred NASs, ranging from simple two bay desk NASs to chunky rackmounted 8x3.5" units, I can't really draw a tendency of which drives fail the most. WDs and Seagates fail equally, 2TB being our most used capacity.

   
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post #55 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

Dispelling Backblaze's HDD Reliability Myth

The lawsuit is not bad. Might be the best for us but still I don't trust the backblaze study.
This article is really, really bad and doesn't take into account:
1. BackBlaze's own caveats about their data - the three faults TT points to are clearly accounted for in BB's study (sourcing, enclosures, and environment).
2. BackBlaze's actual data - if you look to the study you'll find that TT's claims are grossly exaggerated.
2a. Most drives are bought OEM, which isn't ideal, but is not "most drives are pulled from enclosures"
2b. Even if some are pulled from enclosures or bought from shady vendors, BB doesn't make broad claims about manufacturers, they make claims about specific model numbers.
2c1. BB concedes that there environment is not like most home-user environments (this should be obvious) - but, if you look into HW return/failure rates (there's a french distributor that keeps track of these numbers internationally) you'll notice that the numbers match up surprisingly well.
2c2. More importantly, TT is flat out wrong about the conditions being worse - modern HDDs lift their heads when vibration limits are exceeded and actually perform better and last longer in "hotter" conditions (~45*C) than in cooler conditions. Sure, BB's storage pods are definitely not representative of a typical home user with 2 or 3 HDDs, but the disks are (mostly) designed to take these circumstances into account ("mostly" because some drives have really bad parking for 24/7 use).
3. Google's confirmation of these studies - Google has confirmed BB's numbers year after year, and BB also updates their study every year.
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post #56 of 261
lol i bought a ton of 3-5tb drives from them, a couple died. already within a couple of years.
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post #57 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

Dispelling Backblaze's HDD Reliability Myth

The lawsuit is not bad. Might be the best for us but still I don't trust the backblaze study.

The points this article makes about drive sourcing is only of significance if Blackblaze is getting a disproportionate number of refurbished Seagate drives relative to other manufacturers.

The point about the enclosures being vibration prone is mostly meaningless because there are consumer WD drives of greater average age being used in the same vibration prone enclosures, and enough of them for a decent sample size, yet they are failing at one-fifth the rate.

The article does point out the limited information provided by Blackblaze, which is a perfectly fair criticism, but unless there is reason to suspect a plot against Seagate that caused Blackblaze to single them out and put them through conditions the other drives they use would not experience, then we are still left with the Segate parts having lower reliability as a reasonable conclusion.
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post #58 of 261
It is BS lawyer propaganda. Anytime there is a "Class Action Lawsuit" it is for the benefit of the lawyers involved. They walk away with a ton of money and the people who actually were affected get pennies. I have been using Seagate drives for many years and never had one failure. Now I can't say I own the drive list in the suit, but I would think Seagate would make good on a warranty claim. Just my own two cents.
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post #59 of 261
I'm surprised this wasn't brought up YEARS ago. People still buy Seagate drives?

I've always been happy with Toshiba's large hd's for storage, ever since Samsung stopped making drives.
    
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post #60 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora51 View Post

Dispelling Backblaze's HDD Reliability Myth

The lawsuit is not bad. Might be the best for us but still I don't trust the backblaze study.

Lets assume for a minute this goes to court and they win. the end result will look a lot like the class action suit against monitor manufacturers for labeling 16.75 in diagonal monitors as 17". The lawyers make a ton, the consumer gets a couple bucks, the manufacturer recoups costs later in future pricing. Somehow I never felt like this process served me well because my Viewsonic monitor was a 1/4" over stated on the diagonal. Is Seagate (or any other manufacturers) product quality and reliability going to be altered by this result? I doubt it.
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128G Corsair SSD WD 500G Blue generic CDRW/DVD Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Linux Mint 17.2 ASUS 1920x1200 IPS Microsoft XFX 650 
CaseMouse
NZXT 210 Reaper 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II B93 Gigabyte  EVGA GT 740 FTW Misc DD2-800 2x2G and 2x1G 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate  generic  Win 10 Tech Preview 64 bit HDTV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
HP Corsair cx430 Aptevia HTPC IBM 
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W10 Desktop
(17 items)
 
Linux Desktop
(14 items)
 
Win 10 HTPC
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel 5820k ASRock x99 Extreme 4 GTX-960 GTX-750ti 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
HD 7850 4 x 4G DDR4 128G Corsair SSD WD 1G  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
WD 2G generic CDRW/DVD CM 212 EVO Win 10 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS 1920x1200 IPS Microsoft Be Quiet 1000 Antec 305 
Mouse
Reaper 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-6300 ASUS M5A97 R2.0 GTX-760 Samsung 2 x 4G Wonder Ram 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
128G Corsair SSD WD 500G Blue generic CDRW/DVD Corsair H60 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Linux Mint 17.2 ASUS 1920x1200 IPS Microsoft XFX 650 
CaseMouse
NZXT 210 Reaper 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Phenom II B93 Gigabyte  EVGA GT 740 FTW Misc DD2-800 2x2G and 2x1G 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Seagate  generic  Win 10 Tech Preview 64 bit HDTV 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
HP Corsair cx430 Aptevia HTPC IBM 
  hide details  
Reply
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [OC3D] Seagate Hit with Class Action Lawsuit for High Failure Rates