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[TT] AMD's new Zeppelin CPU spotted, features 32 CPU cores - Page 7

post #61 of 111
One core to rule all 32 Bilbo, lest the Blue orcs completely rule the world.
post #62 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by prjindigo View Post

Zen has 4-thread hyperthreading and is NOT doing sub-cores. That's the change. An array of sub-components of the main core are being implemented this time and Zen is NOT using the Piledriver Y shaped core architecture of the previous product ( Bristol Ridge is a Piledriver variant on AM4 but isn't Zen)

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/zen.jpg

Zen is not 4-way SMT, not sure where you are getting that from, unless you know something nobody else does.
That graphic shows what is clearly a 2 way SMT configuration. Unless an FPU is now a "core".
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post #63 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

Perhaps not "wrong", but still grossly misleading.

Well, no. Not really.

If it were to be misleading core should have an exact definition from either Intel, AMD or IBM. None of them want to do that since they don't know what changes they need/want to do next and get sued to oblivion.
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post #64 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

So, does the 386 have a core considering it has no FP unit at all? There's no official designation of a core, but it's undeniable that integer always matters more than FP for the definition given that you can run things without an FPU but afaik, not without Integer calculations. It'd be fairer to say that their core count means little to you as they have weak FP performance which you need more of regardless of whether it's 8 cores or 4 cores

To answer that question - I do not consider 386 as a CPU. It's a microprocessor in my book similar to the ones, for example, in Arduinos (ATmega328P chip). But its a question of semantics I guess as you point out. At the time of the release I was mildly annoyed by AMD's marketing department attempt to call their version of hyper-threading a "core". Similarly how I would have been annoyed if Intel would have decided to call a non enthusiast i7 a "8 core" chip because of it having hyper threading. In my opinion it was a deliberate attempt to mislead the consumers as nowadays having a floating point load on CPU is not some kind of unusual usage scenario.

Fortunately AMD seems to have gotten over that for time being.
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post #65 of 111
Since when is CMT a version of Hyper-threading? rolleyes.gif
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post #66 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Since when is CMT a version of Hyper-threading? rolleyes.gif

It unfortunately isn't. And SMT (Simultaneous multithreading) is not a version of Hyper-threading either. Hyper-threading is a version of SMT!

'unfortunately', because AMD's chips were specifically a failure because of their weak single threaded performance. If the module scheme was similar to hyper threading, there would be one core per module, that could work on a single sequential task, not two cores, that cannot work on the same sequential task. The entire problem with SMT really is that there's two cores in the thing. So not calling em cores on their own is dilluting the problem most people have with the product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

In my opinion it was a deliberate attempt to mislead the consumers as nowadays having a floating point load on CPU is not some kind of unusual usage scenario.

Fortunately AMD seems to have gotten over that for time being.

Maybe 0.01% of customers got 'misslead', by AMD refering to their integer cores as cores, but most people wouldn't be concerned about the lack of floating point units. Calling one of the modules, one 'core', would be even more missleading.

Sure, you can call a core a core, if they include certain features beyond the bare minimum. You could just say 'hey, it doesn't have hyper threading, therefore, it is not a core'. And that'd be as smart as calling a core only a core if it has a dedicated floating point unit or whatever. In that sense, AMD CPUs are not cores at all in a sense, since you cannot just attribute the shared resource to one or the other core. They share it equally.

edit: also, fundamentally, as an argument, it's a bit weak: 'people use floating point to some extent today, therefore every core needs a dedicated floating point unit'. That's like saying 'people use L3 cache to some extent today, therefore every core needs dedicated L3 cache'. Or 'AMD APUs have no L3 cache, therefore they have no CPU cores'. Would make for a solid opinion, anyhow. Do what you want!

edit: also note, that the term 'integer unit', is already sometimes used for subcomponents of a single core. A (integer) single core usually has multiple integer units. I just found this out! this
Edited by Tivan - 2/4/16 at 2:53am
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post #67 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakano2k1 View Post

I like how you can be a petulant child and still be allowed to have an account and post on this forum. Congrats on being a complete tool. thumb.gif

Given that we still know very little about how Zen will scale with multiple cores, it's premature to make any comments regarding the amount of cores. Especially since this is going to be a server chip.
Even more funny more cores is a great idea if they want to win in the datacenter. Loads of efficient cores at low clocks are a great design choice. Why do you think Intel is making many core e5 and e7s.
post #68 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Even more funny more cores is a great idea if they want to win in the datacenter. Loads of efficient cores at low clocks are a great design choice. Why do you think Intel is making many core e5 and e7s.

It depends.


Assume you have 100 cores and 100 tasks. Assume completion time for each task is iid exponential with mean 1... you'd expect the max of a single run to be around 4.7 units of time.

The implication there is that you end up being limited by single threaded performance for sequential tasks that have a limit to how parallelizeable the workloads can get.

look up amdahl's law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law
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post #69 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

It depends.


Assume you have 100 cores and 100 tasks. Assume completion time for each task is iid exponential with mean 1... you'd expect the max of a single run to be around 4.7 units of time.

The implication there is that you end up being limited by single threaded performance for sequential tasks that have a limit to how parallelizeable the workloads can get.

look up amdahl's law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

Is this it ? The AMD target ?
As for Amdhal. I guess any improvement in single core by AMD would help. I don't think all the cores, say any more than 4 would have to run at high speeds. Picking the speeds and number of cores for the parallel processing part is making my head hurt. Having one running at 4.0 and 7 at 2.0 would probably work.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=115884&vpn=P4X-MPE78867V3-SR228&manufacture=SuperMicro
Edited by warpuck - 2/5/16 at 8:35am
post #70 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink View Post

For what it's worth, I sincerely hope that Zen is a home-run, I'm holding out on my next upgrade until benchmarks are out.

I was a huge AMD fan back in the day, absolutely loved my Athlon XP, A64, Opteron 165 and Phenom II BE systems and I have been sad that AMD has fallen behind in the last half decade.
I did want zen to succeed but now I'm not so sure after reading some threads on here recently, I think if amd does perform a miracle u-turn......well, lets just say I'd be worried about some of our users, think we'll need a new section so folks can call in let us know they're ok, ya know? biggrin.gif
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