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Replacing Rivets with M4 Screws? - Page 2

post #11 of 35
Maybe they actually melted the softer, lower melting point aluminum around steel reinforcing bits. I don't know, but good luck with your project.
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post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Look at the edit, or look at the case lol. How you think they did that exactly? you think they melted in steel into the Alu?

BTW my point stands as to what I was saying about the cheap thin stuff LD cases are actually thicker than CL according to them as LDs is 3mm thick.

They have stated there case are expensive due to using thicker alu not because they "Steel Reinforce them"

Steel threaded inserts are a very commonly used to create solid reinforced screw points in softer materials. There is no voodoo or black magic about it, nor does it leave a steel plate visible anywhere. If properly inserted, finished, and painted, you would never know they are there other than by the strength of the threaded connection or by sanding away the paint and inspecting closely for a seam.

Again, everything I've said was presented directly by CL reps, and does not contradict anything you have posted from their website.Your hostile attitude and red herrings do not in any way change these facts, and are a great way to ensure no one actually cares to help you with your inquiries.
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post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Steel threaded inserts are a very commonly used to create solid reinforced screw points in softer materials. There is no voodoo or black magic about it, nor does it leave a steel plate visible anywhere. If properly inserted, finished, and painted, you would never know they are there other than by the strength of the threaded connection or by sanding away the paint and inspecting closely for a seam.

Again, everything I've said was presented directly by CL reps, and does not contradict anything you have posted from their website.Your hostile attitude and red herrings do not in any way change these facts, and are a great way to ensure no one actually cares to help you with your inquiries.

Steel threaded inserts, would be a nut in theory. My reply was stating I could use a nut, and told no only a rivet would do. It does change it changes a lot, First off most of the case does not have Steel rivnut things, I know what you are talking about and some of the case does have it however not all of it does.

Mountain Mods does not have it all, and again those are just nuts that are attached to the alu plate, using nuts would provide the same idea.

The statement that started this was "I just don't know if your case can remain solid w/out rivets" Rivets dont make the world go round lol, Rivets are not even that strong in the greater scheme they are a cheap way out and most defiantly can be replaced.

If "Helping me" involves saying that you can only use a rivet to secure 2 pieces of metal, then you are not helping me you are providing wrong information.

You also most defiantly know they are there as they stick out like the nut that they are doh.gif . They show as a round circle. with a thread in them. They can be seen on the back of a case labs interior as well as on many other cases.

the LD case in question also posses them for all of its screw holes. However they are only used in some places on the Caselabs case, not everywhere has them only the bits that will have screws in and out of them frequently AFAIK.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/3/16 at 1:10pm
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post #14 of 35
If nuts are not an option, you could also use Locktite. There are different grades, and some will create an almost permanent bond. Probably easier to use than JB-Weld or other epoxy.
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post #15 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kernel G View Post

If nuts are not an option, you could also use Locktite. There are different grades, and some will create an almost permanent bond. Probably easier to use than JB-Weld or other epoxy.

I was saying to use JBweld on the nut but ya lockite would probally be better.

I can use a nut I would just need it to be permanently in place. Like a ghetto steel insert.

Also @Zero4549 I think you misunderstand what a steel insert is for. This does not increase the rigidity, nor does it stop the screws from back out both of which were what the guy said would happen. What a steel insert does is gives you a steel thread that is less likely to strip over time. So if a screw is frequently removed it will prevent it from stripping. A steel insert also has threads on the outside of it and screws in to the panel. Again all this does is improve the life of the threads, however that isn't needed if you are careful with your threads.

Case labs confirmed they use steel inserts in all threads, This is again however only done for the thread rigidity and is irrelevant to what we were talking about. A steel insert is threaded into the Aluminium. If it isn't rigid with the bolt threaded through the alu it wont be with an insert either.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/3/16 at 1:50pm
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post #16 of 35
There are many kinds of threaded inserts suitable for sheet metal. The two most suitable for this kind of application are the inserts, which are expanded inside the hole and the rivet nuts, which have a section that expands outside the hole, much like a blind rivet (often called a Pop Rivet). For examples of various types of threaded inserts for sheet metal, click here, then click on Rivet Nuts.

Sheet metal is too thin to thread for any kind of screw other than a sheet metal screw and those will not hold very well, especially in aluminum, unless the sheet metal is a fairly heavy guage
     
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post #17 of 35
For thin sheet metal, you'll want to use self-clinching press nuts, nut plates or rivet nuts, like Lady Fitzgerald posted.

Nut plates are the strongest, but stick out the back of the metal a bit and require a lot of surface area to mount. Press nuts are the easiest to install and lowest profile, but can only be installed near the edge of the sheet of metal (because of the limitations of common hand-held squeezing tools). Rivet nuts are also easy to install, but stick out the back of the metal sheet the farthest.
 
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post #18 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post

There are many kinds of threaded inserts suitable for sheet metal. The two most suitable for this kind of application are the inserts, which are expanded inside the hole and the rivet nuts, which have a section that expands outside the hole, much like a blind rivet (often called a Pop Rivet). For examples of various types of threaded inserts for sheet metal, click here, then click on Rivet Nuts.

Sheet metal is too thin to thread for any kind of screw other than a sheet metal screw and those will not hold very well, especially in aluminum, unless the sheet metal is a fairly heavy guage

thanks smile.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLinky View Post

For thin sheet metal, you'll want to use self-clinching press nuts, nut plates or rivet nuts, like Lady Fitzgerald posted.

Nut plates are the strongest, but stick out the back of the metal a bit and require a lot of surface area to mount. Press nuts are the easiest to install and lowest profile, but can only be installed near the edge of the sheet of metal (because of the limitations of common hand-held squeezing tools). Rivet nuts are also easy to install, but stick out the back of the metal sheet the farthest.

Thanks for the reply smile.gif, So in this I have some concerns.

Nut Plates have a large area that sticks out the plate with other holes in it. Its big its bulky and most likely bigger than what I can accommodate.

I have pretty much found to agree with you, that Self clinching nuts or flush nuts are the way to go. Also not sure what you mean by a hand tool will have to look into that, but from what I know you would use a press, the press would limit me but the places for the nuts would be on the edges however they are on a lip not sure how easily I could get them into a press.

I also wonder how these would affect the powder coating? I wish I could just use a rivet nut however it has a lip on the outside (and a huge one on blind side) the blind side doesn't bother me as much as the outside will not allow installation.
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post #19 of 35
The rivet nut inserts I linked have a flange thickness that is 1/2 that of a regular rivet nut (for a 4-40 or 6-32 screw, the flange is only .015" thick opposed to .032" for a regular rivet nut) and has a shorter barrel sticking out. A special (aka expensive) tool is used to set the inserts (no press is needed) but it could also be done by using a high strength screw, a homemade tool made with a strip of aluminum with a hole in one end, and a wrench or power driver for the screw. The tool I mentioned will help to prevent the insert from rotating when tightening the screw. Just push or tap the insert into the hole, place the hole end of the tool over the insert, place a flat washer on top of that, then insert the screw through the washer and the tool into the insert and tighten the screw with a wrench or the power driver while holding onto the end of the tool to keep it from rotating. I have set rivet nuts that way when I couldn't find my setting tool.

If even only a .015" flange is a problem, countersinking the hole will allow the flange to set flush with the surface. I don't recommend that with really thin sheet metal, however, because the insert has a knurled band that has to have enough metal left after countersinking to bite into to prevent rotating although you could probably get away with it on thicker sheet metal, say 1/16" thick.
     
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post #20 of 35
The squeezer tool (for lack of a better name, I don't know if there is one) looks like this: CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 90

The size of the heads allow you work just about anywhere, including the 90 degree lips, but the depth of the hook/claw limits how far in from the edge of a sheet of metal you can go.

The press nuts I had in mind look like this:


The inner collar slides through a hole in the metal, while the teeth sink part way into the metal when pressed in. They will look like this on the back side (blind side):

I've used them on a powder-coated surface before. The only danger would be the smooth head of the tool should it slide across the metal's surface while squeezing. An easy protection against this would be a layer or two of tape on the tool head.
 
Wild eyes (2015)
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Wild eyes (2015)
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