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[WCCF]Intel Might be Forcing Ban on Non-K OC Feature on Skylake Motherboards – Updated BIOS Rolling Out Soon - Page 21

post #201 of 340
Defensive excuse: "Stop whining and buy the -K model. You're just too cheap."


Reasoned retort: "Why should anyone have to? Why should Intel get to arbitrarily limit overclocking without complaints? How is the -K model product really any different from the non-K equivalents? How does manufacturing quality differ? Solder? Nope. Better binning for higher clocks? Nope. Any consumer-justifiable reason for that limitation to exist other than because Intel can? Nopenopenope."




Overclocking was here before Intel turned it into an excuse for higher premiums and SKU segmentation.
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post #202 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

That's weird, why can't you run your 4850s in crossfire on Windows 10? Is it because AMD dropped driver support a few years ago?
The way how you worded it, it must have been working on Windows 7 or 8, so it's quite odd that it doesn't work under the new OS.
That's what I was thinking.
It's been possible for a couple of months, were Intel completely oblivious to this? First it started with one manufacturer and then it grew to loads more.
They couldn't have been completely unaware of this?

Another thing I was wondering at the time was, did the manufacturers get the go ahead from Intel to do this? I questioned this since alot of them had the feature to overclock non K processors and it's also been going on for a couple of months.

I guess that's not the case now, which is rather unfortunate.

indeed 7 and 8 are wdm 1.2 and win 10 is wdm 1.3, no driver support other than single card use. i haven't looked up if nvidia is the same way for simiar period cards or not yet. i usualy have better luck software wise with nv but, generally both brands are usable.
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post #203 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Defensive excuse: "Stop whining and buy the -K model. You're just too cheap."


Reasoned retort: "Why should anyone have to? Why should Intel get to arbitrarily limit overclocking without complaints? How is the -K model product really any different from the non-K equivalents? How does manufacturing quality differ? Solder? Nope. Better binning for higher clocks? Nope. Any consumer-justifiable reason for that limitation to exist other than because Intel can? Nopenopenope."




Overclocking was here before Intel turned it into an excuse for higher premiums and SKU segmentation.

The worst part of it all, as akromatic and I pointed out, is that the K chips are gimped in terms of features (no vPro). So for now, the two are mutually exclusive. Want vPro? NO OVERCLOCKING FOR YOU.
post #204 of 340
I guess it remains to be seen if Intel will push this update and force it on users, or if people can keep the older bios that allows overclocking. Here's hoping nothing is forced.
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post #205 of 340
It would piss me off if I had bought an i3 6100 and a cheap Z170 board after the overclocking announcement only to have it taken away from me. That was a plan I had that luckily didn't act upon. I'll wait for AMD Zen and see how it affects the market.
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post #206 of 340
I remember a time when you could OC pretty much any chip.
 
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post #207 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Defensive excuse: "Stop whining and buy the -K model. You're just too cheap."


Reasoned retort: "Why should anyone have to? Why should Intel get to arbitrarily limit overclocking without complaints? How is the -K model product really any different from the non-K equivalents? How does manufacturing quality differ? Solder? Nope. Better binning for higher clocks? Nope. Any consumer-justifiable reason for that limitation to exist other than because Intel can? Nopenopenope."




Overclocking was here before Intel turned it into an excuse for higher premiums and SKU segmentation.

Intel doesn't need a reason. They certainly don't need your approval. Ever.

Don't like it, buy something else. Doesn't matter if you complain, if you keep buying it then the receipt you get after says "I Support Intel for doing this" to their ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Defensive excuse: "Stop whining and buy the -K model. You're just too cheap."


Reasoned retort: "Why should anyone have to? Why should Intel get to arbitrarily limit overclocking without complaints? How is the -K model product really any different from the non-K equivalents? How does manufacturing quality differ? Solder? Nope. Better binning for higher clocks? Nope. Any consumer-justifiable reason for that limitation to exist other than because Intel can? Nopenopenope."




Overclocking was here before Intel turned it into an excuse for higher premiums and SKU segmentation.

The worst part of it all, as akromatic and I pointed out, is that the K chips are gimped in terms of features (no vPro). So for now, the two are mutually exclusive. Want vPro? NO OVERCLOCKING FOR YOU.

Well... To be fair, if you are overclocking, you are not using vPro. Period. In fact, you don't even want it.

vPro is Intel's remote control/security suite. Remote startup, shutdown, bios-level control, etc. You are not using it outside of seriously large (multi-thousand user) business, and those businesses do not use -K chips. You also don't get vPro on lower end models.

VT-d being disabled was annoying, but again, it's use purpose is direct slot pass-through cards to VMs (ala ESXi). Not something you use for chips you'd OC. Disabling it does make it less appealing to the VM crowd, but it does not impact OCing nor anything you run Windows on. It is now enabled on newer K-series parts.

If you want to complain, it should be about the missing instruction sets on Pentiums and i3s.
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post #208 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Intel doesn't need a reason. They certainly don't need your approval. Ever.

Duh? I never said they did. Obviously, the fact that they're doing it means they don't need anyone here's approval. The terms "consumer-justifiable reason" and "because Intel can" should have tipped you off. I'm explicitly not talking about reasons they can't do something. Instead, I was referring to those in this thread who justify shunning complaints on the basis of "you're just cheap" when the disapproval's really a much more complex "no, I just remember overclocking being a thing before stupid premiums, know it's a ripoff market segmentation strategy, and as a consumer (which all of us here), I don't approve".

No one's talking about them needing our approval. Them not needing our approval, however, doesn't mean they have our approval and doesn't mean forumgoers can't be critical about it.

Quote:
Don't like it, buy something else. Doesn't matter if you complain, if you keep buying it then the receipt you get after says "I Support Intel for doing this" to their ears.

That's great... except every chip Intel sells falls under the category of either locked or unlocked and the general umbrella of Intel's market segmentation strategy. Every person buying any modern x86 chip suitable for the express purposes of performance and/or efficiency are going to be buying Intel. Therefore, every person that's buying a modern x86 chip suitable for performance and/or efficiency are supporting this practice and therefore shouldn't complain because complaining is meaningless? Wonderful, what's next? Every x86 buyer not buying Intel supports antiquated, poorly-performing, inefficient designs unsuited for various workloads and therefore shouldn't complain about those issues because complaining about a company whose product you own is meaningless? Are people's complaints now valid only if they don't buy from the company they're critiquing... even if they really have no other choice? And then, if they're buying from another company and critiquing Intel's products, those people will be met with claims of "you're just being a fanboy trying to justify your purchase".

I don't buy Intel to support their practices, I buy Intel because there is no reasonable alternative for what I need an x86 CPU for. Which is the same reason why Intel are comfortable administering these practices. If complaining, on a forum centered around these types of discussions, is the last course of action a consumer can reasonably take, they are certainly free to complain and are not inherently wrong for doing so.
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post #209 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serandur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Intel doesn't need a reason. They certainly don't need your approval. Ever.

Duh? I never said they did. Obviously, the fact that they're doing it means they don't need anyone here's approval. The terms "consumer-justifiable reason" and "because Intel can" should have tipped you off. I'm explicitly not talking about reasons they can't do something. Instead, I was referring to those in this thread who justify shunning complaints on the basis of "you're just cheap" when the disapproval's really a much more complex "no, I just remember overclocking being a thing before stupid premiums, know it's a ripoff market segmentation strategy, and as a consumer (which all of us here), I don't approve".

No one's talking about them needing our approval. Them not needing our approval, however, doesn't mean they have our approval and doesn't mean forumgoers can't be critical about it.

Quote:
Don't like it, buy something else. Doesn't matter if you complain, if you keep buying it then the receipt you get after says "I Support Intel for doing this" to their ears.

That's great... except every chip Intel sells falls under the category of either locked or unlocked and the general umbrella of Intel's market segmentation strategy. Every person buying any modern x86 chip suitable for the express purposes of performance and/or efficiency are going to be buying Intel. Therefore, every person that's buying a modern x86 chip suitable for performance and/or efficiency are supporting this practice and therefore shouldn't complain because complaining is meaningless? Wonderful, what's next? Every x86 buyer not buying Intel supports antiquated, poorly-performing, inefficient designs unsuited for various workloads and therefore shouldn't complain about those issues because complaining about a company whose product you own is meaningless? Are people's complaints now valid only if they don't buy from the company they're critiquing... even if they really have no other choice? And then, if they're buying from another company and critiquing Intel's products, those people will be met with claims of "you're just being a fanboy trying to justify your purchase".

I don't buy Intel to support their practices, I buy Intel because there is no reasonable alternative for what I need an x86 CPU for. Which is the same reason why Intel are comfortable administering these practices. If complaining, on a forum centered around these types of discussions, is the last course of action a consumer can reasonably take, they are certainly free to complain and are not inherently wrong for doing so.

So buy AMD. Or VIA. Or hell, Qualcomm, I don't care.

The moment you buy their product you condone their actions.

This is not debatable. This is fact. All you're telling me are useless excuses. Your last section tells me you do not care enough to stop buying their products, and that is all Intel cares about.
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post #210 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

So buy AMD. Or VIA. Or hell, Qualcomm, I don't care.

The moment you buy their product you condone their actions.

This is not debatable. This is fact. All you're telling me are useless excuses. Your last section tells me you do not care enough to stop buying their products, and that is all Intel cares about.

Useless excuses? They're facts and criticism of your faulty logic. Intel have a monopoly, there is no reasonable choice. As I said, that's why they can do this. And that certainly doesn't make complaining unreasonable. I like how you just sidestepped the gaping flaw in your logic. Buying from a company does not mean you have to personally stop voicing disapproval and doesn't mean you automatically approve of all the practices a company undertakes. Support financially? Sure, of course. So what? I don't have to approve of all that they do, just disapprove less of the overall package than I do from... whatever's left of the competition. I don't need to spell it out for you, you know exactly what I mean.

Nobody needs your approval to disapprove of a company's actions just because they bought/buy products from that company. And if that's not the claim you're making, then you stumbled upon the wrong post to take out of context.
Edited by Serandur - 2/6/16 at 6:26pm
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