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[WCCF]Intel Might be Forcing Ban on Non-K OC Feature on Skylake Motherboards – Updated BIOS Rolling Out Soon - Page 27

post #261 of 340
Regardless of your opinion, there have been times in the era of "k" CPUs where you could temporarily overclock non K CPUs by playing around with the BLCK, but Intel eventually patched that with microcode updates. I don't get why people are acting as if Intel doing this kind of stuff is unprecedented.
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post #262 of 340
ah . .actually clamping down on bkclk IS unprecedented.
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post #263 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

ah . .actually clamping down on bkclk IS unprecedented.

This is all unprecedented. Intel let this go on for 2 months and everyone witnessed the mobo manufacturers ramp up the marketing. In the beginning there was a lot of question whether Intel would shut it down, but after the first of the year when no one heard a peep out of them they figured it was here to stay and started banking on it.

Then all of a sudden, BAM, without any statement or warning it was all gone literally overnight, and the mobo manufacturers won't even say why.

If you let your neighbors dog poop in your yard for 2 months before saying anything then shame on you not them.
 
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post #264 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radnad View Post

This is all unprecedented. Intel let this go on for 2 months and everyone witnessed the mobo manufacturers ramp up the marketing. In the beginning there was a lot of question whether Intel would shut it down, but after the first of the year when no one heard a peep out of them they figured it was here to stay and started banking on it.

Then all of a sudden, BAM, without any statement or warning it was all gone literally overnight, and the mobo manufacturers won't even say why.

If you let your neighbors dog poop in your yard for 2 months before saying anything then shame on you not them.
Actually i am pretty sure I know what ticked Intel over the edge with this whole thing.

So consumer parts right, normal consumer CPUs OCing with BLCK on Z and on some brands H series motherboards, nothing new, people had been doing it for decades. That seemed to be okay with Intel. All the big brands have BIOSes out either officially or unofficially since the BIOS code is distributed to them. However, behind the scenes there is a lot of drama. Some brands are upset others are able to market it more and face little repercussions, but that is always the case, move on to CES. At CES most people were trying to fiure out if this whole thing would increase motherboard sales or decrease them, same thing on the CPU side.

At CES the only new thing were X series motherboards and a few manufacturers figured out how to move over the non-K OC code to the X series motherboard. X series is all about Skylake Xeons, and when Intel figured out that some brands had Xeons overclocking on X series boards, i guess that was a final thing that pushed them over the edge. Intel probably didn't want anyone to mess with their Xeon platform (b/c unlike pervious generations Skylake Xeons require a seperate chipset, the x series), the non-K OC hack isn't even that awesome, you can't even read the temperature correctly.

IMO, just use the older BIOSes if you want to OC with non-K SKUs, it's not like newer BIOSes offer that much more, just don't use Prime95 for stability testing memory.
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post #265 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Yeah, very good excuse!

I bought an C series, how dare they not give me self moving sealt belts like on an S series. rolleyes.gif
Your free to retrofit them if you dont care for warranty wink.gif
post #266 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Intel doesn't need a reason. They certainly don't need your approval. Ever.

Don't like it, buy something else. Doesn't matter if you complain, if you keep buying it then the receipt you get after says "I Support Intel for doing this" to their ears.
Well... To be fair, if you are overclocking, you are not using vPro. Period. In fact, you don't even want it.

vPro is Intel's remote control/security suite. Remote startup, shutdown, bios-level control, etc. You are not using it outside of seriously large (multi-thousand user) business, and those businesses do not use -K chips. You also don't get vPro on lower end models.

VT-d being disabled was annoying, but again, it's use purpose is direct slot pass-through cards to VMs (ala ESXi). Not something you use for chips you'd OC. Disabling it does make it less appealing to the VM crowd, but it does not impact OCing nor anything you run Windows on. It is now enabled on newer K-series parts.

If you want to complain, it should be about the missing instruction sets on Pentiums and i3s.

but then you realize that today you want vt-d or vpro features and next day you want to overclock......so buy 2 chips? thats abit too sad isnt it

i'll pay $100 premium on top of a K for a non-k with all the k features and non k features and perhaps even ECC support and that its not ended with a K suffix so no im not too cheap to buy a K

Mmm, I see the misunderstanding.

You, as a consumer of one CPU, do not use vPro. You do not. It is that simple. It is not a feature available to you, even if you got a non-k with it. You can not simply download some free software to make use of it. You need millions of dollars and a massive infrastructure of users and computers to use it in any context.

As for VT-d, agreed. That is why all my ESXi server are running AMD, because at the time, the Intel ones did not support what I wanted. That is no longer the case. You seem to think again however that this is a feature you just "decide you want" for the next 5 minutes and that is simply not the case. Both of these features of examples of things that massive corporate environments use that gamers and enthusiasts do not. And besides that, ESXi is getting much better about handling of GPU power and RAID arrays and so forth, so VT-d and IOMMU wont even be needed to run proper 3D graphics soon, you'll be able to split up GPU power between VMs the same as CPU and RAM.

ECC is AGAIN not an OCers feature, it is slower RAM with longer latency to ensure stability. It does you no good at all.

Absolutely none of these things are split-second "i want to do this now" decisions. None of them. They all require moving to an entirely different operating system like nothing most on OCN have even seen to meet an entirely different set of goals.

If you really really want all these features, AMD's 990FX platform is great for cheaper servers. They have loads of PCI-e lanes, some like my giga boards support unbuffered ECC, they all support every Virtualization feature including Direct I/O, and they're cheap. Otherwise, find an E5, like the E5-1620 or 1630. They make excellent servers as well, and their chip-set is much better for it than the Z-series ever will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

But my budget may only be enough for an i3 or Pentium. There's no actual reason for Intel to prohibit OCing except that enthusiasts will happily pay an extra $20 for the feature, if anything it's extra work for them to disable OCing..

I can't actually believe that anyone supports Intel in this...It's blatant extortion of users to spend more on the same part and there can't be much that's legal in how they've worked this out with ASRock.

Especially when you consider the whole AMD anti-competitiveness thing...

Don't like it, buy whatever AMD has to offer, all their Desktop CPU's are overclockable.

Personally, I been unimpressed with the mediocre gains Intel has been giving us. I almost bought a 5820K last year, AMD wasn't an upgrade option for me. So I ended up buying an X5660 brand new for $85, and got another 6 GB of RAM. I will upgrade this rig when I can get an 8 core for $600.

For now, that was the best upgrade I made to extend the life of X58. This thread made my decision easier

My long winded point is to vote with your wallet! I tried telling people about the whole K biz when it came out with SB, but since people bought it in droves, the practice continued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

The worst part of it all, as akromatic and I pointed out, is that the K chips are gimped in terms of features (no vPro). So for now, the two are mutually exclusive. Want vPro? NO OVERCLOCKING FOR YOU.

I've never understood why those are taken out from K chips

Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

but then you realize that today you want vt-d or vpro features and next day you want to overclock......so buy 2 chips? thats abit too sad isnt it

i'll pay $100 premium on top of a K for a non-k with all the k features and non k features and perhaps even ECC support and that its not ended with a K suffix so no im not too cheap to buy a K

Sounds like you want a Xeon wink.gif

Right? tongue.gif

And they were most likely taken out to discourage smaller companies form using them instead of more expensive Xeons, then bad-mouthing Intel for their "crappy chips that don't work right". VT-d and IOMMU are finicky beasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy67 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Yeah, very good excuse!

I bought an C series, how dare they not give me self moving sealt belts like on an S series. rolleyes.gif
Your free to retrofit them if you dont care for warranty wink.gif

Likewise, if you have the skill, you're free to edit the BIOS and microcode.

Just don't expect Intel to help you when you break it.
Edited by KyadCK - 2/7/16 at 4:17pm
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post #267 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Actually i am pretty sure I know what ticked Intel over the edge with this whole thing.

So consumer parts right, normal consumer CPUs OCing with BLCK on Z and on some brands H series motherboards, nothing new, people had been doing it for decades. That seemed to be okay with Intel. All the big brands have BIOSes out either officially or unofficially since the BIOS code is distributed to them. However, behind the scenes there is a lot of drama. Some brands are upset others are able to market it more and face little repercussions, but that is always the case, move on to CES. At CES most people were trying to fiure out if this whole thing would increase motherboard sales or decrease them, same thing on the CPU side.

At CES the only new thing were X series motherboards and a few manufacturers figured out how to move over the non-K OC code to the X series motherboard. X series is all about Skylake Xeons, and when Intel figured out that some brands had Xeons overclocking on X series boards, i guess that was a final thing that pushed them over the edge. Intel probably didn't want anyone to mess with their Xeon platform (b/c unlike pervious generations Skylake Xeons require a seperate chipset, the x series), the non-K OC hack isn't even that awesome, you can't even read the temperature correctly.

IMO, just use the older BIOSes if you want to OC with non-K SKUs, it's not like newer BIOSes offer that much more, just don't use Prime95 for stability testing memory.

I agree non-K OC in Skylake is not worth it, without temp sensing and power savings possible. And there is the decrease AVX performance. thumb.gif

However i like to know why this gen, we need a separate X series board for Xeon? Is it really a hardware limitation or Intel being Intel, just likes to segregate their product lineup for more money! mad.gif

I love to buy cheaper Xeon and use in consumer boards in the past. It seem Intel is regressing in terms of not just performance/generation, but also available features opened to consumers. mad.gif
    
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post #268 of 340
its not about being "worth it" but being an enthusiast and doing it because you can.

like buying a pot and some LN2 after abusing a cheaper mobo with grease . . .
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post #269 of 340
I hope ZEN is the Jesus of CPUs because it will make OCN a bit more enjoyable and spare me of threads like this where people complain about an issue that should have been fixed much earlier in the process.
 
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post #270 of 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Mmm, I see the misunderstanding.

You, as a consumer of one CPU, do not use vPro. You do not. It is that simple. It is not a feature available to you, even if you got a non-k with it. You can not simply download some free software to make use of it. You need millions of dollars and a massive infrastructure of users and computers to use it in any context.

As for VT-d, agreed. That is why all my ESXi server are running AMD, because at the time, the Intel ones did not support what I wanted. That is no longer the case. You seem to think again however that this is a feature you just "decide you want" for the next 5 minutes and that is simply not the case. Both of these features of examples of things that massive corporate environments use that gamers and enthusiasts do not. And besides that, ESXi is getting much better about handling of GPU power and RAID arrays and so forth, so VT-d and IOMMU wont even be needed to run proper 3D graphics soon, you'll be able to split up GPU power between VMs the same as CPU and RAM.

ECC is AGAIN not an OCers feature, it is slower RAM with longer latency to ensure stability. It does you no good at all.

Absolutely none of these things are split-second "i want to do this now" decisions. None of them. They all require moving to an entirely different operating system like nothing most on OCN have even seen to meet an entirely different set of goals.

If you really really want all these features, AMD's 990FX platform is great for cheaper servers. They have loads of PCI-e lanes, some like my giga boards support unbuffered ECC, they all support every Virtualization feature including Direct I/O, and they're cheap. Otherwise, find an E5, like the E5-1620 or 1630. They make excellent servers as well, and their chip-set is much better for it than the Z-series ever will be.
Right? tongue.gif

And they were most likely taken out to discourage smaller companies form using them instead of more expensive Xeons, then bad-mouthing Intel for their "crappy chips that don't work right". VT-d and IOMMU are finicky beasts.
Likewise, if you have the skill, you're free to edit the BIOS and microcode.

Just don't expect Intel to help you when you break it.

see the thing is i retire my rigs into servers, i may overclock now but when im done i need my "pro" features

besides with the speed CPU these day overclocking isnt a necessity but a few years later i may need a clock bump or two to remain comparable/ remain relevant to demands. or perhaps overclock for fun

in short i want my cake and eat it too, right now im forced to forgo overclocking for "pro" features that are more beneficial to me. ie VT-d and ECC
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