Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD 6350 12 Threads?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AMD 6350 12 Threads? - Page 2

post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Zen won't have this issue because it's a conventional CMP + SMT design, not CMT like 15h is. Each core will have its own dedicated 10-pipe FPU.
I think you're confusing the rumoured total ten pipelines with FPU pipes. Zen should have four FPU pipes, not that the amount is the most important thing, layout matters just as much.
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophet4NO1 View Post

Some versions of Linux have correct instruction scheduling for AMD FX chips. This is why you get a pretty sizable boost in Linux over windows in some workloads.
In my experience, Linux beats the ever-living crap out of Windows on any K15h microarchitecture chip. The difference is so large that if someone uses Linux exclusively or almost so, there's basically no reason to buy Intel. Part of it is that Linux schedules threads better than Windows does, but the bigger reason is that Linux better uses the resources that are available to it. If you give Linux software eight cores, it uses them, unlike a lot of Windows software that leaves four or more of the cores to twiddle their thumbs.

As far as the original question, there are no FX chips that can do 12 threads. There are Opterons that can do that. There are even Optys that can do 16 threads, but the cheapest one is about $700, limited to 2.3 GHz speed and can't be overclocked. Of course, if you can make full use of 16 threads, it's still a beast. There's one person on here who has a rig with quad Magny-Cours (old 12-core K10.5 Opty) chips in it, running Linux.
Edited by jsc1973 - 2/7/16 at 11:48am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon X4 870K 4700mhz 1.63v ASUS A88X-PRO Radeon HD 6970 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB DDR2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston V300 Toshiba 2.5" laptop HDD, 1TB Micron C300 SSD Generic 2TB HDD WL2000GSA1672 (external) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate Momentus XT 500GB ASUS DVD-RW Prolimatech Black Series Megahalems Linux Mint 18 Cinnamon "Sarah" 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ViewSonic VG2030wm IBM Model M Fractal Design Newton R3 600W 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Phanteks Enthoo Pro Logitech Marble Mouse Behringer UCA222 Upgraded Realistic Minimus-7 speakers, Lepai 20... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile T9900 Dell 0G848F Intel Mobile 4 series 4GB Crucial DDR2-6400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
OWC Mercury Electra 3G 44GB SSD stock DVD-RW Linux Mint Cinnamon 17.1 "Rebecca" 1366x768 WXGA 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon X4 870K 4700mhz 1.63v ASUS A88X-PRO Radeon HD 6970 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB DDR2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston V300 Toshiba 2.5" laptop HDD, 1TB Micron C300 SSD Generic 2TB HDD WL2000GSA1672 (external) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate Momentus XT 500GB ASUS DVD-RW Prolimatech Black Series Megahalems Linux Mint 18 Cinnamon "Sarah" 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ViewSonic VG2030wm IBM Model M Fractal Design Newton R3 600W 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Phanteks Enthoo Pro Logitech Marble Mouse Behringer UCA222 Upgraded Realistic Minimus-7 speakers, Lepai 20... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile T9900 Dell 0G848F Intel Mobile 4 series 4GB Crucial DDR2-6400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
OWC Mercury Electra 3G 44GB SSD stock DVD-RW Linux Mint Cinnamon 17.1 "Rebecca" 1366x768 WXGA 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

I think you're confusing the rumoured total ten pipelines with FPU pipes. Zen should have four FPU pipes, not that the amount is the most important thing, layout matters just as much.

Yeah you're right, there's 10 pipes total: 4 FPU, 4 ALU, and 2 AGU. That's what I get for posting whilst being delirious from sleep deprivation redface.gif.
post #14 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

It couldn't be farther from the truth. There are six integer cores.

Officially they are integer clusters and a cluster doesn't equal a core. So he's right. The module is the core with CMT technology (just like an intel core is with SMT), a true dual core would be CMP which the module obviously isn't meeting the spec reqs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Zen won't have this issue because it's a conventional CMP + SMT design, not CMT like 15h is. Each core will have its own dedicated 10-pipe FPU.

The 6300/8350 are CMP as well because they have 3/4 cores. A single core can never be CMP.
post #15 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

Officially they are integer clusters and a cluster doesn't equal a core. So he's right. The module is the core with CMT technology (just like an intel core is with SMT), a true dual core would be CMP which the module obviously isn't meeting the spec reqs.
The 6300/8350 are CMP as well because they have 3/4 cores. A single core can never be CMP.

How does an integer cluster not equal a core? Even today there are cpu's that don't have fpu's and use emulation. I guess they don't qualify as "cores".
post #16 of 33
Faithh is splitting hairs over semantics. In a 15h cluster, you have two sets of integer pipes that have their own instruction schedulers that can operate completely indepedently from any other "units". So when you can explain to me how that's not a "core", I'll be happy. If you take one core out, the other can still function completely with no performance loss.
Quote:
The 6300/8350 are CMP as well because they have 3/4 cores. A single core can never be CMP.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, as I never implied a "single core" fell under CMP at all. Trying to compare CMT to SMT is silly because they're not really much alike at all. Cut off "half" of an Intel core and see if you maintain full performance (pure theory here as this is such a dumb concept.) SMT utilizes leftover execution units in a core to extract extra multi-threaded performance from apps that can make use of it. CMT is nothing like that because you have two separate integer execution units grouped together that share some resources whilst having their own resources for other things.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

How does an integer cluster not equal a core? Even today there are cpu's that don't have fpu's and use emulation. I guess they don't qualify as "cores".

How does an ALU cluster equal a core? Explain me that should explain why it's a core. Ever thought about the idea that you can pack those two clusters together? And think about the idea packing two real cores together, you'll end up with a duplicated front-end you're nothing with it. Even if you decide to go with two front-ends and obv two-backends, you're not doing it any different than a classic dual core (CMP design). Thats why Bulldozer only has a single front-end to save space, which is the goal of CMT.



Even AMD admits the module is not a CMP design (stands for chip multi-core processor);



We can keep arguing as much as you want, but you can't avoid the fact that a module isn't a CMP design essentially meaning it's not a conventional dual-core at all. Besides it has nothing to do with the FPU's, however AMD used a symmetric FPU design (two identical 128 bit FP's which is unusual) to achieve multithreading. The gain in multithreaded floating point performance you get from having 1 cluster enabled vs 2 clusters, has little to do with duplicating the ALU cluster (aka "adding a 2nd integer core" in the module").

If you've seen today a CPU that doesn't use FPU's, I'd like to see that as well. Whatever you use your ALU's for these days for an average user (eg video rendering/gaming/name it), the performance of ALU's are completely irrelevant. FPU's aren't just floating point calculations, I prefer to call them SIMD because there are FPU units specificly for integer instructions. Calling them SIMD just kinda avoids this confusion. Mostly everything is being shifted to the SIMD, and they execute integer instructions like who knows 20 times faster than ALU's do. Hence why you see Intel throwing a bunch of SIMD units at us and widening their registers from 128 bit all the way to 512 bit with just two new architectures. (Sandy's integer simd units were 128 bit wide and Skylake xeon's 512).

The future aren't more ALU's, add as many ALU clusters as you want, software shifting to AVX (We got AVX3 already) is the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

Faithh is splitting hairs over semantics. In a 15h cluster, you have two sets of integer pipes that have their own instruction schedulers that can operate completely indepedently from any other "units". So when you can explain to me how that's not a "core", I'll be happy. If you take one core out, the other can still function completely with no performance loss.

The "core" you moved out, can it function? Not really no. The Intel core you moved out, can it function? Yes. A core is supposed to be able to function on her own, which the cluster can't do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, as I never implied a "single core" fell under CMP at all.

Alright.
post #18 of 33
The thread is already going out of control (Faithh, talkin' about you!), there is nothing more to contribute, the OP question was answered already.
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
Desktop PC
(22 items)
 
ASUS ROG G72GX
(6 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8320 ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Killer Sapphire Nitro+ RX480 Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
XFX RX470 Singlefan Mushkin Redline 996996 2x4GB 2133Mhz Maxtor 6Y080L0 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM 8MB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 8MB Corsair Force LS WesternDigital Blue 500GB 7200RPM 16MB ASUS DVD-RW 
CoolingOSOSOS
ThermalTake Frio Silent 14 Windows 10 Enterprise Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa OphCrack 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VS228HR Logitech K120 Corsair VS650 ThermalTake View 27 
MouseAudio
Bloody V5 Corsair HS30 Raptor 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 G72GX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M  Hyundai Electronics  
RAMRAM
Hyundai Electronics  Hyundai Electronics  
  hide details  
Reply
post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

How does an ALU cluster equal a core? Explain me that should explain why it's a core. Ever thought about the idea that you can pack those two clusters together? And think about the idea packing two real cores together, you'll end up with a duplicated front-end you're nothing with it. Even if you decide to go with two front-ends and obv two-backends, you're not doing it any different than a classic dual core (CMP design). Thats why Bulldozer only has a single front-end to save space, which is the goal of CMT.



Even AMD admits the module is not a CMP design (stands for chip multi-core processor);



We can keep arguing as much as you want, but you can't avoid the fact that a module isn't a CMP design essentially meaning it's not a conventional dual-core at all. Besides it has nothing to do with the FPU's, however AMD used a symmetric FPU design (two identical 128 bit FP's which is unusual) to achieve multithreading. The gain in multithreaded floating point performance you get from having 1 cluster enabled vs 2 clusters, has little to do with duplicating the ALU cluster (aka "adding a 2nd integer core" in the module").

If you've seen today a CPU that doesn't use FPU's, I'd like to see that as well. Whatever you use your ALU's for these days for an average user (eg video rendering/gaming/name it), the performance of ALU's are completely irrelevant. FPU's aren't just floating point calculations, I prefer to call them SIMD because there are FPU units specificly for integer instructions. Calling them SIMD just kinda avoids this confusion. Mostly everything is being shifted to the SIMD, and they execute integer instructions like who knows 20 times faster than ALU's do. Hence why you see Intel throwing a bunch of SIMD units at us and widening their registers from 128 bit all the way to 512 bit with just two new architectures. (Sandy's integer simd units were 128 bit wide and Skylake xeon's 512).

The future aren't more ALU's, add as many ALU clusters as you want, software shifting to AVX (We got AVX3 already) is the future.
The "core" you moved out, can it function? Not really no. The Intel core you moved out, can it function? Yes. A core is supposed to be able to function on her own, which the cluster can't do.

Alright.

You are trolling again per usual. Time and time again you just pop in and ruin threads and eventually they get closed. You are like a broken record. Is that what you call a contribution to a thread?
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

You are trolling again per usual. Time and time again you just pop in and ruin threads and eventually they get closed. You are like a broken record. Is that what you call a contribution to a thread?

Rather than trying to prove me wrong or being constructive, you're insulting. That's called trolling. Sure, anything you have to say about bulldozer being a true x-core is trolling by default. It just is. No matter what, you are wrong. Literally it's a crime saying the 8350 is a quad core with CMT. A fact or not, you're wrong regardless.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD 6350 12 Threads?