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[Anandtech] Who Controls the User Experience? AMD’s Carrizo Thoroughly Tested - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

What does one expect, really? Even with the improvements, Excavator is still bad compared to Intel. Plus it's running on a larger node than Intel.

So unless you need a beafy, itengrated GPU on a laptop, go Intel. And then you might as well get a dGPU...

It's a shame, but this all still stems from AMD being stuck on 28nm and a poor, poor CPU design.

Only when AMD gets Zen APUs with HMB out the door, will they see laptop/ portable sales go up - or just Zen mobile parts without much of a iGPU.

Doubt that, they've never been the fans of OEM, it's like there is a gag comity on AMD in anything period. They have the short end of the stick in motherboards. You'll see an Intel with a 8 + 2 phase and hard up to see anything more than a 4 + 1 phase for APUs. I can just imagine the overclock I could do on an 8 + 2 phase APU mobo.
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Doubt that, they've never been the fans of OEM, it's like there is a gag comity on AMD in anything period. They have the short end of the stick in motherboards. You'll see an Intel with a 8 + 2 phase and hard up to see anything more than a 4 + 1 phase for APUs. I can just imagine the overclock I could do on an 8 + 2 phase APU mobo.

The "problem" is that there's absolutely no incentive for mobo OEMs to make such high-end FM2+ motherboards, as the potential sales volume is not there to justify its existence.

No one other than the ever-dwinding number of die-hard AMD fans would ever pay for features like 8+2 power phases on what is seen in the marketplace as a low-end platform for buyers too broke and/or cheap to buy a proper Intel system and end up settling for "good enough".
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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

The "problem" is that there's absolutely no incentive for mobo OEMs to make such high-end FM2+ motherboards, as the potential sales volume is not there to justify its existence.

No one other than the ever-dwinding number of die-hard AMD fans would ever pay for features like 8+2 power phases on what is seen in the marketplace as a low-end platform for buyers too broke and/or cheap to buy a proper Intel system and end up settling for "good enough".

Not how it works, even back in the day when AMD had competitive products they were gimped by the OEM.
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuclearPeace View Post

The APU was still getting its clock cleaned in CPU tasks by a 4.5w Core M... Can't really blame OEMs for not taking Bulldozer's latest failure seriously.

 

Remember that the 4.5W quoted by Intel is the thermal design power (TDP), though they architect their low-power stuff according to a scenario design power (SDP). On Intel's ARK listing for the Core M3-6Y30 is listed as a 4.5W chip, but the TDP is configurable to 7W (which some vendors will choose), with a 3W SDP as revealed in their Skylake announcements.

 

The ASUS UX305CA is also a fanless design, and I think the processor's being held back as a result. Those scores could be a lot faster.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Cat cores do support multiple memory sticks. Could the socket not be wired such that Carrizo-L sees two sticks in single-channel and Carrizo sees two in dual-channel?
 

 

Carrizo-L and Carrizo share a similar pin-out and work with the same chipsets. The socket and board is indeed architected to not support dual-channel memory, even though the APU does by default. This is a bit like those Intel tablets that shipped with 32-bit Windows even though the hardware is capable of 64-bit operation - in this case the BIOS is 32-bit UEFI compliant and the RAM is soldered in, all to artificially segment things more and make it ever-so-slightly-cheaper. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

It's a shame, but this all still stems from AMD being stuck on 28nm and a poor, poor CPU design.

 

It's a shame, and it really stems from the OEMs not designing nice AMD systems because of a perceived notion that they won't sell. If they weren't such penny-pinching morons, Intel wouldn't have had to institute the Ultrabook program, and we would have moved from TN displays, 500GB hard drives, single-channel memory and increasingly smaller battery packs because the CPUs grow more efficient. 

 

It's also partially AMD's fault too. They took the hit by making Carrizo-L and Carrizo pin-compatible, and they seemingly weren't in a position to tell the OEMs that they were approaching things the wrong way.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

Remember that the 4.5W quoted by Intel is the thermal design power (TDP), though they architect their low-power stuff according to a scenario design power (SDP). On Intel's ARK listing for the Core M3-6Y30 is listed as a 4.5W chip, but the TDP is configurable to 7W (which some vendors will choose), with a 3W SDP as revealed in their Skylake announcements.

The ASUS UX305CA is also a fanless design, and I think the processor's being held back as a result. Those scores could be a lot faster.


Carrizo-L and Carrizo share a similar pin-out and work with the same chipsets. The socket and board is indeed architected to not support dual-channel memory, even though the APU does by default. This is a bit like those Intel tablets that shipped with 32-bit Windows even though the hardware is capable of 64-bit operation - in this case the BIOS is 32-bit UEFI compliant and the RAM is soldered in, all to artificially segment things more and make it ever-so-slightly-cheaper. 


It's a shame, and it really stems from the OEMs not designing nice AMD systems because of a perceived notion that they won't sell. If they weren't such penny-pinching morons, Intel wouldn't have had to institute the Ultrabook program, and we would have moved from TN displays, 500GB hard drives, single-channel memory and increasingly smaller battery packs because the CPUs grow more efficient. 

It's also partially AMD's fault too. They took the hit by making Carrizo-L and Carrizo pin-compatible, and they seemingly weren't in a position to tell the OEMs that they were approaching things the wrong way.

Personally it's brilliant that they are pin compatible, but not brilliant on the OEM front.
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post #36 of 46

As Anantech also pointed out, Carrizo hardware is much, much cheaper than anything from Intel at a similar performance level. What is happening to the money they're saving when those AMD machines are priced equivalently to Intel designs? Who is pocketing it and why isn't it being used to make a better machine?

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by CataclysmZA View Post

As Anantech also pointed out, Carrizo hardware is much, much cheaper than anything from Intel at a similar performance level. What is happening to the money they're saving when those AMD machines are priced equivalently to Intel designs? Who is pocketing it and why isn't it being used to make a better machine?
OEMs are pocketing the money, cuz they are greedy. The motherboard designs from AMD are also far more cheaper than those for Intel CPUs...because AMD has like 2 or 3 sockets in total, unlike Intel, where they change it every 1 or 2 generations.
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post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Not how it works, even back in the day when AMD had competitive products they were gimped by the OEM.

There were a lot of parking-lot dealings between Intel and OEMs to make that happen. Now you compound that with Intel have much more energy efficient chips and better reputation in consumer's eyes.
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post #39 of 46
I got a free laptop that has a AMD e-300 and a single 2gb ram stick 15" screen with windows 7 now windows 10 i just don't under stand why they cheap out on the ram ... i ordered 2x4gb ram few days ago it should help. ... it is sad what they try to pass for a laptop sometimes lachen.gif
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post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

What does one expect, really? Even with the improvements, Excavator is still bad compared to Intel. Plus it's running on a larger node than Intel.

So unless you need a beafy, itengrated GPU on a laptop, go Intel. And then you might as well get a dGPU...

It's a shame, but this all still stems from AMD being stuck on 28nm and a poor, poor CPU design.
It's a little better than you're giving it credit for. No, it won't compete with an Intel gaming laptop, but an OEM could build something like what I mentioned earlier, and it would play at 720p with decent settings. You can't do that on an Intel laptop without a dGPU and a much higher price tag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

You'll see an Intel with a 8 + 2 phase and hard up to see anything more than a 4 + 1 phase for APUs. I can just imagine the overclock I could do on an 8 + 2 phase APU mobo.
It might make a difference on old Richland chips, but not on Kaveri and Godavari. There are other limitations at work there. There are well-built 6+2 phase boards that can push these pretty much as far as they can go. Almost all Steamroller APU's and Athlons hit a wall at some point between 4.3 and 4.6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypcisugly View Post

I got a free laptop that has a AMD e-300 and a single 2gb ram stick 15" screen with windows 7 now windows 10 i just don't under stand why they cheap out on the ram ... i ordered 2x4gb ram few days ago it should help. ... it is sad what they try to pass for a laptop sometimes lachen.gif
I would recommend Linux on anything with an E-series APU in it. An E-300 should run Windows 10 passably, but it would fare much better under Linux.
     
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