Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [TF] Pirate Group Suspends New Cracks To Measure Impact On Sales
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[TF] Pirate Group Suspends New Cracks To Measure Impact On Sales - Page 4

post #31 of 145
This is what I'm hearing when I read this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strawman 
Boo hoo, I can't steal things anymore!

Okay, maybe not that bad. But c'mon guys. If you're a content creator, you're going to want to protect what you make. If you make a game, you pour years of effort into this, and see a torrent for it a day after publication, will you be

A) happy?
B) sad?
C) angry?
D) ambivalent?

My bet is on C, though I suppose B is also an option.

And because this is so prevalent, good DRM is a necessary evil. That means good in two ways - difficult to crack, at least in the critical first few months of sales, and more-or-less invisible to the consumer. Product keys are good for the latter, but they're easy to crack. For offline games, you just need to borrow somebody else's to pass some kind of checksum. Always-online DRM is good for the former, but it's also draconian for the end user. Denuvo seems to be a decent middle ground based on everything I've seen about it.
Edited by CynicalUnicorn - 2/6/16 at 9:23am
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
post #32 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

What edit? What do you mean?
I edited my post to include this:
Quote:
Not entirely sure what you mean, I don't watch streamed anime. Even if I did - CR and Funimation are officially licensed distributors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

I'm only implying that progress is made through competition, be it legal or illegal. And the intersection point between those terms is constantly in motion. thumb.gif
Yeah I don't think the definition on whether stealing is legal or illegal has really changed in the past thousand years or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

edit: and paying money for what one enjoys is probably going to be much more of an important factor than it is today, going forward, as you seem to agree!

I don't think this has changed in the past thousand years or so neither.
Yuki
(20 items)
 
Illya
(20 items)
 
Neptunia
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500K 5Ghz ASUS P8P67 Pro EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 G.Skill RipJaws X 2133Mhz 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
240GB Corsair Neutron GTX RAID0 Samsung 850 Evo 1TB WD Red 8TB Corsair H115i GTX 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK Vardar fans Windows 10 Dell u2713hm Apple Cinema Display 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer BlackWidow 2013 CoolerMaster V1000 Corsair 760T Artic White Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
CoolerMaster Swift-RX XL ASUS Xonar DX Schiit Magni Sennheiser HD650 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 Skylake-E X190 Nvidia Titan Volta 32GB 3200Mhz DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB Samsung 850 Evo 1TB 8TB WD Red Corsair H115i GTX 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK Vardar fans Windows 10 Dell u2713hm Apple Cinema Display 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine CoolerMaster V1000 Corsair 760T Artic White Logitech G502 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
CoolerMaster Swift-RX XL Asus Xonar DX Schiit Magni Sennhesier HD650 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600 3.3Ghz Asus Z170M Pro AMD RX460 G.Skill 16GB 2133Mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 850 M.2 256GB Windows 10 Dell S2817Q 4K Ducky Shine 3 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
CoolerMaster Vanguard 450W BitFenix Phenom Logitech G700S CoolerMaster Swift-RX 
  hide details  
Reply
Yuki
(20 items)
 
Illya
(20 items)
 
Neptunia
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500K 5Ghz ASUS P8P67 Pro EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 G.Skill RipJaws X 2133Mhz 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
240GB Corsair Neutron GTX RAID0 Samsung 850 Evo 1TB WD Red 8TB Corsair H115i GTX 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK Vardar fans Windows 10 Dell u2713hm Apple Cinema Display 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Razer BlackWidow 2013 CoolerMaster V1000 Corsair 760T Artic White Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
CoolerMaster Swift-RX XL ASUS Xonar DX Schiit Magni Sennheiser HD650 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 Skylake-E X190 Nvidia Titan Volta 32GB 3200Mhz DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB Samsung 850 Evo 1TB 8TB WD Red Corsair H115i GTX 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK Vardar fans Windows 10 Dell u2713hm Apple Cinema Display 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine CoolerMaster V1000 Corsair 760T Artic White Logitech G502 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
CoolerMaster Swift-RX XL Asus Xonar DX Schiit Magni Sennhesier HD650 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5 6600 3.3Ghz Asus Z170M Pro AMD RX460 G.Skill 16GB 2133Mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 850 M.2 256GB Windows 10 Dell S2817Q 4K Ducky Shine 3 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
CoolerMaster Vanguard 450W BitFenix Phenom Logitech G700S CoolerMaster Swift-RX 
  hide details  
Reply
post #33 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex132 View Post

Yeah I don't think the definition on whether stealing is legal or illegal has really changed in the past thousand years or so.

Good thing we don't talk about theft. Rogue copies were always a legal thing, till 100-200 years ago, at least if you did the translation, in case of books. Taking creative inspiration from other people's pieces of music was also more commonplace. Then again, musicians were all sponsored by some rich guy anyway, so what would they care. Rather it'd show respect as well.

Now marginal cost approaching zero is of course creating multiple problems:

1) Everyone feels entitled to monetize their works everywhere at once now (preferably while not allowing the re-selling of licenses granted to an individual), while some forces push the prices to true market value.

Which brings us to point 2, market value.

2) Market value has traditionally most of the time been based on distribution cost and marginal cost of production in general. Which is approaching zero, with digital goods.

Trying to avoid the problems arising from point 2 via more restrictive copyright laws, and harsher enforcement, seems unproductive on a societal level (since it's nice to have more stuff, even moreso if we didn't need to fell more trees for it. edit: plus, every person involved in enforcing law, is a person that could potentially produce something amazing, instead. so we need a legal framework that people generally are not incentivised to go against.), and well, as you realized, it makes a lot of sense to instead get people's money via offering an experience that connects with people, or offering some other unique utility, like Steam does. (As much as I cannot take their store seriously, for lack of ability to resell the licenses you can buy there. I'm a free market kind of guy, and would rather put money into things that I'm able to put on ebay and sell, should I not need em anymore.)
Edited by Tivan - 2/6/16 at 10:05am
Cute PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k@4200 Sabertooth x79 R9 290 Tri-X@950/1250 4x4GB@2133CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial BX100 Mugen 4 Win7 Benq xl2411z 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
NEC EA231WMi QPad-MK50 (reds) Seasonic S12G 750 Define R4  
MouseMouse PadAudio
Deathadder 3.5G BE Razer Goliathus Speed Edition Large Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
Cute PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k@4200 Sabertooth x79 R9 290 Tri-X@950/1250 4x4GB@2133CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial BX100 Mugen 4 Win7 Benq xl2411z 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
NEC EA231WMi QPad-MK50 (reds) Seasonic S12G 750 Define R4  
MouseMouse PadAudio
Deathadder 3.5G BE Razer Goliathus Speed Edition Large Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
post #34 of 145
Smoke and mirrors! Don't be so naive people....


If they stop cracking then its only because someone payed them too. This is YIFI all over again....
post #35 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by end0rphine View Post

So what are they benchmarking the base sales on? Aggregate PC games sales? While controlling for other extraneous variables? I doubt it. Something doesnt add up.

They're either getting paid/threatened, or they're covering for the fact that Denuvo is beating them silly.
post #36 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

Good thing we don't talk about theft. Rogue copies were always a legal thing, till 100-200 years ago, at least if you did the translation, in case of books. Taking creative inspiration from other people's pieces of music was also more commonplace. Then again, musicians were all sponsored by some rich guy anyway, so what would they care. Rather it'd show respect as well.

Yeah, you ever think there might be a reason for that? wink.gif

Here's the deal. The "old" economy based on goods and services is a bit less applicable to today than it was hundred years ago. Why? Because we trade, primarily, information. Information in this context has a lot of meanings, but most of today's largest markets would fit. Games? Yup. Movies? Yup. Books? Yup. Magazines? Yup. Advertising? Yup. Television? Yup. Analytics? Yup. All of those, worth billions, can be (mostly) simplified as a bunch of bytes in the right order.

In fact, let's take a look at science as a whole. The end result that is really cared about is, put simply, an interpretation of raw data. Right now, I'm doing undergrad research in chemistry. I have not and will not touch a single piece of glassware. All of this is computational. An entire research project is based around putting 1s and 0s in the proper order.

IP law is more important today than it ever has been. If you ripped off somebody's design for a fancy new type of steam engine a couple hundred years ago, you'd still need to construct and sell it. Today, if I want to make money off people's work, all I need to do is copy or reproduce the original and sell it - or, in the case of torrents, let anybody have their own copy for free.
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
Triumvirate
(20 items)
 
Osmium
(8 items)
 
For Sale: [FS] Z97 system: Xeon and RAM
$160 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7-5775C ASUS Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 Sapphire RX 480 (reference) MSI Low-Profile 750Ti 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Dominator Platinum - 2x8GB Crucial M500 - 960GB Samsung 840 - 250GB WD Scorpio Blue - 1TB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
ADATA SP900 - 64GB Scythe BIG Shuriken 2 Rev. B PNY Quadro 600 blower Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
ASUS VE247H - 1080p Gateway FPD1960 - 1280x1024 Samsung S20D300 - 900p, portrait Rosewill RK9000I - Cherry MX Blue 
PowerCaseMouseOther
Rosewill HIVE 650W Riotoro CR1080 SteelSeries Rival 100 CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-7870K ASRock FM2A88X-ITX+ G.Skill Ripjaws X - 2x4GB @ 2400MT/s Samsung 840 120GB 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Evercool EC-HPS-810CP Windows 7 Pro 64-bit PicoPSU-120-WI-25 Mini-Box M350 
  hide details  
Reply
post #37 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by corky dorkelson View Post

I just stay 2-3 years behind the curve. It requires much less cost and hardware requirements. I'm playing Batman Arkham City right now! thumb.gif

I plan on keeping my sig rig exactly the same for at least another 3 years.

This dude has has the right idea. I am a very patient person I wont mind buying some of these current games a few years down the road for next to nothing. I still am working on games that are 2-3 years old right now. This also has the benefit of getting to play a game in its final form with all the patches and optimizations in effect.
post #38 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Yeah, you ever think there might be a reason for that? wink.gif

Here's the deal. The "old" economy based on goods and services is a bit less applicable to today than it was hundred years ago. Why? Because we trade, primarily, information. Information in this context has a lot of meanings, but most of today's largest markets would fit. Games? Yup. Movies? Yup. Books? Yup. Magazines? Yup. Advertising? Yup. Television? Yup. Analytics? Yup. All of those, worth billions, can be (mostly) simplified as a bunch of bytes in the right order.

In fact, let's take a look at science as a whole. The end result that is really cared about is, put simply, an interpretation of raw data. Right now, I'm doing undergrad research in chemistry. I have not and will not touch a single piece of glassware. All of this is computational. An entire research project is based around putting 1s and 0s in the proper order.

IP law is more important today than it ever has been. If you ripped off somebody's design for a fancy new type of steam engine a couple hundred years ago, you'd still need to construct and sell it. Today, if I want to make money off people's work, all I need to do is copy or reproduce the original and sell it - or, in the case of torrents, let anybody have their own copy for free.

I go into detail about all of this, especially with the edit I just added. thumb.gif

But yeah, it's smart to make society more supportive of creating open source. In the long run that anyhow.

And I do think that anything that's an alternative to paywalled content, but has no upfront cost associated, is generally more resilient on the free market. Caveat, seems like this has developed a 'winner takes it all' marketplace, looking at facebook, LoL, google, etc. Maybe society should be more willed to tax winners and enable not yet winners to aim for greater hights?
Edited by Tivan - 2/6/16 at 10:10am
Cute PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k@4200 Sabertooth x79 R9 290 Tri-X@950/1250 4x4GB@2133CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial BX100 Mugen 4 Win7 Benq xl2411z 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
NEC EA231WMi QPad-MK50 (reds) Seasonic S12G 750 Define R4  
MouseMouse PadAudio
Deathadder 3.5G BE Razer Goliathus Speed Edition Large Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
Cute PC
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k@4200 Sabertooth x79 R9 290 Tri-X@950/1250 4x4GB@2133CL9 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Crucial BX100 Mugen 4 Win7 Benq xl2411z 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
NEC EA231WMi QPad-MK50 (reds) Seasonic S12G 750 Define R4  
MouseMouse PadAudio
Deathadder 3.5G BE Razer Goliathus Speed Edition Large Onboard 
  hide details  
Reply
post #39 of 145
Sales will go down because people will now have too many choices via steam, do they buy a $60 they know nothing of. Or do they buy various games for $30 they've not yet played. The risk is greater with the $60.
Power Tower
(22 items)
 
SteamBox
(9 items)
 
Doge Miner
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700X AX370-Gaming 5 AMD Radeon R9 200 Series G.Skill DDR4-2400 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 Samsung 840 Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CX300 Crucial 480GB Toshiba 4TB Toshbia 4TB Western Digital Black 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
h110i Windows 10 42" LG TV 20" Digitizer ASUS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance Mechanical Keyboard  850watt Vampire Gold Rated NZXT S340 Elite Corsair RGB FPS Mouse 
Mouse PadAudio
Borderlands Mousepad Realtek HD 
  hide details  
Reply
Power Tower
(22 items)
 
SteamBox
(9 items)
 
Doge Miner
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1700X AX370-Gaming 5 AMD Radeon R9 200 Series G.Skill DDR4-2400 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 G.Skill DDR4-2400 Samsung 840 Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
CX300 Crucial 480GB Toshiba 4TB Toshbia 4TB Western Digital Black 1TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
h110i Windows 10 42" LG TV 20" Digitizer ASUS 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair Vengeance Mechanical Keyboard  850watt Vampire Gold Rated NZXT S340 Elite Corsair RGB FPS Mouse 
Mouse PadAudio
Borderlands Mousepad Realtek HD 
  hide details  
Reply
post #40 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Sales will go down because people will now have too many choices via steam, do they buy a $60 they know nothing of. Or do they buy various games for $30 they've not yet played. The risk is greater with the $60.

There isn't really all that much risk anymore with Steam refunds. If the $60 game turns out to be not as good as you thought, doesn't work properly because it's unoptimized, doesn't work on your computer because your computer is too weak, etc. as long as you have less than 2 hours gameplay time and you bought it 14 days ago or sooner, you can get a full refund, no matter what the issue is. The only real risk with buying $60 games from Steam these days is going over your data cap if you have one.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R5 1600 Asus PRIME B350 PLUS  AMD Radeon HD7950 16GB Corsair Vengence (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 120GB Hitachi Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
LG 32LD450 Dell Ducky DK9008 OCN Edition Corsair TX650v2 
Case
Fractal Design Core 3000 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R5 1600 Asus PRIME B350 PLUS  AMD Radeon HD7950 16GB Corsair Vengence (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 120GB Hitachi Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
LG 32LD450 Dell Ducky DK9008 OCN Edition Corsair TX650v2 
Case
Fractal Design Core 3000 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Game News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [TF] Pirate Group Suspends New Cracks To Measure Impact On Sales