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Possibly swapping from amd to intel. - Page 6

post #51 of 78
Quote:
That´s why Mantle put AMD chips on par with Intel in games that support it

It never did that, Intel on Mantle was always faster than FX on Mantle.

Likewise, Intel on dx11 always faster than FX on dx11

Intel on dx12 faster than FX on dx12 etc.

If you're comparing slow hardware with fast API vs fast hardware with slow API, you might see parity.

----

Another situation where you might see parity is where the faster system isn't CPU limited, but the slow system -is- CPU limited until new API it used. That way both are limited by the GPU in that specific situation and performance is the same. That doesn't mean that the hardware is as fast at running the game engine though, only that the limit is elsewhere in that particular load.
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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Quote:
AMD FX-8350 have tons of free resources, while i5 and i3 CPU´s are satured. So this goes against your claims.

No, it doesn't. It actually backs them up. Even the best engines like Frostbite leave a ton of resources idle on an 8-threaded chip due to Amdahl's Law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwitUDD0B1A

this shows as far lower FPS and low utilization when stressed compared to a CPU that would otherwise perform equally, but with fewer stronger threads. This is the biggest problem with spreading performance across fewer, weaker threads - it's much harder and less efficient to utilize for some workloads, even impossible sometimes. Notice how it's at both lower load AND lower FPS (by ~1.2x compared to last gen i5) - you can't simply double the utilization and double FPS. It's already working with the main thread as fast as it can, which is limiting performance in parts of gameplay and minimum FPS even in that gameplay as low as ~60fps.

A gtx770/7970 is not capable of enough FPS at 1440p to stress those CPU's that well on frostbite (which actually runs well, as long as you're using Nvidia driver or Mantle). In order to run into CPU limits in that particular situation, you would have to use easier graphics settings OR a better GPU - current gen flagships like a 980ti or Fury X is about 2.5x faster.

People often see what they want to see. Based on the cpu usage, you could make the case that all of the X4's were about tapped out.

Cryo 999 is right in that you should really have more gpu when making the comparison, but if all party's were being honest, rather surprisingly the rather low powered 7970 was enough to find a cpu bottleneck on the X4's even at the 1440 resolution. ( remember the 90 and 95% usages are averages at that rate it's a near certainty that it was topped out at 100% during parts of the benchmark = cpu bottleneck ).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbi View Post

Cyro is right, it backs up his claims, not yours. I was actually confused when you brought it up to be honest because it suddenly seemed like you were agreeing with the other side all of a sudden rolleyes.gif

If the FX is being used less it means there are unused resources (obviously). One should use a high end GPU to remove potential bottlenecks (or use a graphically negligible therefore making it high CPU bound) in order to test a scenario in which a CPU has room to stretch its legs. In those cases, it brings to light quite a few real world scenarios in which the FX chip gets trampled by a Haswell/Skylake chip.
I'm not saying tat the Haswell/skylakes won't get more fps, most they will. But in the vast majority of games at modern resolutions and realistic settings the difference won't be nearly as great as some like to advertise. Moreover the OP won't see it in the games he mentioned at the resolution and refresh rate of his monitor.

Do you fellows really think it would be worth it for him to drop $500 + on a cpu/board/ram based on what the OP has given for information?
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post #53 of 78
Another benchmark back and forth, imagine that.

My 2cents.gif, OP: No, it isn't worth the wholesale switch at this point. Keep saving for either Zen or the Skylake tock and a next gen GPU.
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post #54 of 78
I think it is worth it to buy a new platform unless you absolutely have to save that money, the performance difference going from a FX chip to even an overclocked i3 6100 would be tangible and it is upto you to know how much do you value your money vs % increase in performance.

The skylake i3s at stock beat the FX 8350s in gaming already, that just shows how far behind that platform is now that its more than 5 years old. The below partlist is budget, under 325$ and is going to make a very big difference in your framerates (most visible in lowest fps numbers). Waiting for a new platform is an option but there is always another platform to wait for - you cant wait for zen because it is already established it will be much slower than skylake (even according to AMD) while intels next platform will be at most that 5% improvement per gen again.

AMD FX chips are really old now and they cannot match even the budget i3s in gaming scenarios, it is true you will have to upgrade this sometime in the near future but would it benefit you to wait? Upto you to decide

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvzyvK
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvzyvK/by_merchant/
CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor ($183.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($99.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Panram Value 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($36.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $320.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-02-10 10:35 EST-0500
post #55 of 78
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My bad on the late reply..thinking I may go ahead and bite the bullet on a 6600k rig compiled a cart total cost is 720.Fount a used 290 nearby for 100 bucks prolly will pick that up tomorrow .Then I can do some old fashion testing.I'll keep y'all posted and drop the list of parts I choose.Thanks for all the feedback it was quite informative and appreciated.
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post #56 of 78
I went from a 8350 @ 5ghz to a 5820K @ 4.5ghz after every one was saying I would notice a massive frame rate difference in all games and that the 8350 was bottlenecking the hell out of my 980ti.

And the hard facts are, It made 0 difference at all in gaming for me.
post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmgjet View Post

I went from a 8350 @ 5ghz to a 5820K @ 4.5ghz after every one was saying I would notice a massive frame rate difference in all games and that the 8350 was bottlenecking the hell out of my 980ti.

And the hard facts are, It made 0 difference at all in gaming for me.

Pretty much the case for me , 4790k vs my Vishera's

Might be of interest to the OP http://www.overclock.net/t/1534128/vishera-vs-devils-canyon-a-casual-comparison-by-an-average-user
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post #58 of 78
Going from 8350 to a $1000 intel CPU doesnt make a difference to a lot of people because it is hard to notice since 8350 is already "good enough". Similarly, going from an $120 i3 to a $1000 intel CPU wont make a difference to most because it is hard to notice since the i3 is "good enough".
Comparing a 8350 to 4790k in gaming and making the conclusion that the 8350 is good value for money is silly and baseless. When you start measuring numbers a dual core i3 6100 is beating the 8 core 4 GHZ chip more often than not, which is a fair comparison to do since they are in the same price bracket. Comparing it to anything like an i5 is silly as hell.

But i do agree it is "good enough" for most people but it sits at the very bottom of being "acceptable"
post #59 of 78
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Interesting spent some time in my bios this morning.got my cpu to from 4.5 to 4.6,Ht from 2500 to 3000 and nb from 2200 to 2540.While playing xcom 2 the past few days theres was lag in the beginning of missions and now its gone.So tbh idk was ready to pull the trigger last night now im not to sure...temps have raised tho 4-5C but that most likely to the voltage increase.
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by a3venom View Post

Going from 8350 to a $1000 intel CPU doesnt make a difference to a lot of people because it is hard to notice since 8350 is already "good enough". Similarly, going from an $120 i3 to a $1000 intel CPU wont make a difference to most because it is hard to notice since the i3 is "good enough".
Comparing a 8350 to 4790k in gaming and making the conclusion that the 8350 is good value for money is silly and baseless. When you start measuring numbers a dual core i3 6100 is beating the 8 core 4 GHZ chip more often than not, which is a fair comparison to do since they are in the same price bracket. Comparing it to anything like an i5 is silly as hell.

But i do agree it is "good enough" for most people but it sits at the very bottom of being "acceptable"
Quote:
Originally Posted by a3venom View Post

Going from 8350 to a $1000 intel CPU doesnt make a difference to a lot of people because it is hard to notice since 8350 is already "good enough". Similarly, going from an $120 i3 to a $1000 intel CPU wont make a difference to most because it is hard to notice since the i3 is "good enough".
Comparing a 8350 to 4790k in gaming and making the conclusion that the 8350 is good value for money is silly and baseless. When you start measuring numbers a dual core i3 6100 is beating the 8 core 4 GHZ chip more often than not, which is a fair comparison to do since they are in the same price bracket. Comparing it to anything like an i5 is silly as hell.

But i do agree it is "good enough" for most people but it sits at the very bottom of being "acceptable"

Comparing an 8350 to a 4790k when you already own an 8350 and are considering spending the money to move to the 4790k isn't silly at all. That's the reason I went through the trouble of putting that thread together.
The best way to compare is to use them everyday side by side, which I've done with the 2600k, 3770k and 4790k , the FX is what I'm on right now - haven't used any of the Intel rigs since around Christmas.
There have been some reports that the i3 struggles with some of the newest titles out there - Rise of the Tomb raider - which is one the OP mentioned specifically. Personally I find using any 4 core machine very disappointing - even with the 8 threads HT provides. Dual cores simply an unbearable trip back to 2006.
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