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Who do people turn off Enhance Pointer Precision - Page 8

post #71 of 108
LMAO this thread is 4 pages. 4 as in F O U R pages and you people are still getting baited by this person. I don't even
post #72 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pente View Post

LMAO this thread is 4 pages. 4 as in F O U R pages and you people are still getting baited by this person. I don't even

Until someone proves this post wrong:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

Ok, let me use Captain Picard's marvelous bald head to visualize the idea of precision in a way that even if a *potentially* retarded person from *outside* this forum stumbles upon this post, he'll have at least a slight change to understand it.
Here is Picard:


Now we want to separate Picard from his background.
Here it is done with PRECISION:


Here is it done WITHOUT PRECISION:


The ability to reach from one side of the screen to the other without having to traverse your entire desk with your mouse, I'll call "utility", since I'm gonna be as frivolous with terms as you are.

No acceleration + low sensitivity = high precision + NO utility
No acceleration + medium sensitivity = low precision + low utility
No acceleration + high sensitivity = NO precision + high utility

Acceleration + low sensitivity = high precision + low utility
Acceleration + medium sensitivity = high precision + high utility
Acceleration + high sensitivity = low precision + high utility.

Acceleration (or EPP) is overall more precise. Period.

And again, precision IS NOT a ratio! You can't express precision as "1:1", or "1:2" or "1000:1". That is CONSISTENCY, LINEARITY, CORELATION.
NOT PRECISION.

you are all just in denial.
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post #73 of 108
pente is right.
shame on us
post #74 of 108
Okay I'mma just help with /threading this
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

The ability to reach from one side of the screen to the other without having to traverse your entire desk with your mouse, I'll call "utility", since I'm gonna be as frivolous with terms as you are.

No acceleration + low sensitivity = high precision + NO utility
No acceleration + medium sensitivity = low precision + low utility
No acceleration + high sensitivity = NO precision + high utility

Acceleration + low sensitivity = high precision + low utility
Acceleration + medium sensitivity = high precision + high utility
Acceleration + high sensitivity = low precision + high utility.

Acceleration (or EPP) is overall more precise. Period.

And again, precision IS NOT a ratio! You can't express precision as "1:1", or "1:2" or "1000:1". That is CONSISTENCY, LINEARITY, CORELATION.
NOT PRECISION.
A/T is not part of the formula.

Quote:
pre·ci·sion (prĭ-sĭzh′ən)
n.
1. The state or quality of being precise; exactness.
2.
a. The ability of a measurement to be consistently reproduced.
b. The number of significant digits to which a value has been reliably measured.
adj.
How do we measure precision on a PC? Pixels. If you can move your mouse enough to only move your cursor by 1 pixels on your current resolution then you have 100% precision.
Can you relieably move your mouse so that the cursor only move by 1 pixel? Then you have max precision. Because you can't be any more exact or precise than that.

Of course it's easier to do that with low sensitivity/DPI. So you have max precision on low sense. It becomes more difficult to move and land on an exact pixel as you increase sensitivity or DPI. Theoretically, precision is no longer max when you reach the point when the pointer always moves by 2 pixels or more when you move the mouse. Increased sense = lower precision.

Acceleration/EPP merely increases your sensitivity as you move the mouse, only adds, not decrease. From what we've established above, increase of sensitivity = decreased precision.

Let's establish a mathmatical formula:

On linear mouse sense it'd be:
Precision = 1 / Sensitivity. Because more sensitivity decreases precision.
On mouse sense with acceleration or EPP it'd be:
Precision = 1 / Sensitivity + (Accel time * Accel curve)

If you compare,
1 / Sensitivity >= 1 / Sensitivity + (Accel time * Accel curve)
So to say, the level of precision granted by linear sensitivity will always be more than the precision granted by sensitivity with acceleration curve.

From this you could tell that someone skipped on elementary math class. Here's the biggest warning sign:
Quote:
No acceleration + medium sensitivity = low precision + low utility
Acceleration + medium sensitivity = high precision + high utility
Let's since we're talking about precision let's ignore the other pointless subjects such as utility or whatever. Here's what'd look like:
Where Y > 0 (because acceleration from accel and EPP does never go negative unless if it's an malfunction)

1 / X = 1 / X
1 / (X + Y) > 1 / X
We all know noone who skipped math in elementary school would come up with something this dumb. How can linear medium sense result in lower precision than medium sense with accel curve when accell merely increases sensitivity during movement and we've directly established that more sensitivity results in less precision?

It's like saying that box with X apples contains more than a box with X + Y apples. That's just backwards no matter how you look at it lmao
post #75 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pente View Post

Okay I'mma just help with /threading this

How do we measure precision on a PC? Pixels. If you can move your mouse enough to only move your cursor by 1 pixels on your current resolution then you have 100% precision.
Can you relieably move your mouse so that the cursor only move by 1 pixel? Then you have max precision. Because you can't be any more exact or precise than that.

Of course it's easier to do that with low sensitivity/DPI. So you have max precision on low sense. It becomes more difficult to move and land on an exact pixel as you increase sensitivity or DPI. Theoretically, precision is no longer max when you reach the point when the pointer always moves by 2 pixels or more when you move the mouse. Increased sense = lower precision.

Acceleration/EPP merely increases your sensitivity as you move the mouse, only adds, not decrease. From what we've established above, increase of sensitivity = decreased precision.

Let's establish a mathmatical formula:

On linear mouse sense it'd be:
Precision = 1 / Sensitivity. Because more sensitivity decreases precision.
On mouse sense with acceleration or EPP it'd be:
Precision = 1 / Sensitivity + (Accel time * Accel curve)

If you compare,
1 / Sensitivity >= 1 / Sensitivity + (Accel time * Accel curve)
So to say, the level of precision granted by linear sensitivity will always be more than the precision granted by sensitivity with acceleration curve.

From this you could tell that someone skipped on elementary math class. Here's the biggest warning sign:
Let's since we're talking about precision let's ignore the other pointless subjects such as utility or whatever. Here's what'd look like:
Where Y > 0 (because acceleration from accel and EPP does never go negative unless if it's an malfunction)

1 / X = 1 / X
1 / (X + Y) > 1 / X
We all know noone who skipped math in elementary school would come up with something this dumb. How can linear medium sense result in lower precision than medium sense with accel curve when accell merely increases sensitivity during movement and we've directly established that more sensitivity results in less precision?

It's like saying that box with X apples contains more than a box with X + Y apples. That's just backwards no matter how you look at it lmao

EPP does lower sensitivity for slow movement. Test it. It does.
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post #76 of 108
EPP is 'precise' only with slow movements. In fact it's not precision. Your arguments are invalid.
post #77 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

EPP does lower sensitivity for slow movement. Test it. It does.
Nah.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20110421045930/http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463319.aspx
Current mouse accel curve values on windows registry disagrees with this as well:
"SmoothMouseXCurve"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,15,6e,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,40,\
01,00,00,00,00,00,29,dc,03,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,28,00,00,00,00,00
"SmoothMouseYCurve"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,b8,5e,01,00,00,00,00,00,cd,4c,\
05,00,00,00,00,00,cd,4c,18,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,38,02,00,00,00,00

Anyways, any OCN member who actually cared would have EPP "enabled" anyways since we're a flat curve edited EPP registry values from http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html to get true linear mouse sensitivity movement.
post #78 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnin426850 View Post

EPP does lower sensitivity for slow movement. Test it. It does.

If it would actually lower the sensitivity for slow movements, it would be an "enhanced" precision mode.
But the sensitivity just stays the same(but not even as fluid) as with the "EPP" unchecked.

/thread

THE END
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post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pente View Post

*snip*

1 / X = 1 / X
1 / (X + Y) > 1 / X
We all know noone who skipped math in elementary school would come up with something this dumb. How can linear medium sense result in lower precision than medium sense with accel curve when accell merely increases sensitivity during movement and we've directly established that more sensitivity results in less precision?

It's like saying that box with X apples contains more than a box with X + Y apples. That's just backwards no matter how you look at it lmao

inb4 "Y is negative" lachen.gif


Look.

Ronnin, just in case you are serious (probably shame on me for replying; anyway...)

Let's try a more backward approach to the root of the argument.
You claimed that the function of the label "Enhance Pointer Precision" states that your pointer will become more precise, right? Right.

The next two arguments I will point out are strongly correlated, so please consider them as inseparable:

First, this is badly worded by Microsoft. Because of the general user base, avoiding any technicalities or semantic interpretations is more convenient for both them and their user base.
To be completely objective, if you want to go technical, it should have been worded "Enhance Your Precision With The Pointer"..(possibly enhance). This is so because Microsoft aims for providing navigation convenience, which is an integral part of software ergonomics. This is objective and different for each and every person, because the brain's power over hand movement is far more flexible and adaptable to a curve that introduces variation (slower mouse movement = less cursor sensitivity and vice versa) which, ultimately, provides convenience for the users as it saves them from the hassle of switching sensitivities. (Let's not even mention how many PC users are clueless about mouse speed, but I digress.) (Another bracket opened for different users - some will benefit and actively use acceleration with variable speed hand movements, while others are comfortable with their desk space - it being the main reason behind acceleration - and thus will navigate with consistent hand speed.)
But wait...
We're already really deep in technicalities, right?
Then it is only fair that we call EPP/EYPWTP for what it is: acceleration.

Second,
But wait...
If we are completely technical, you simply/mathematically can not possibly claim that acceleration = better precision.

Mathematical precision is ultimate when 1 translates into 1.
For 400DPI: 1/400'' = 1 px
With acceleration introduced, your movement will be mathematically represented as such:
For 400DPI: 1/400" for Xin/s = 1px ± Y (and a table is sampled for the value of Y for each possible X).
This means that, at the absolute best, you can attain a value of 0 for Y.

User precision is not measurable by this formula, because it gets way more complicated - your brain needs to predict what speed you will have to move your mouse at, for the distance you want covered, for the distance of mouse travel, and it will base its prediction on muscle memory learned for the acceleration curve (in other words - how used to it you are).


So no, technically, it is not enhancing precision, but enhancing convenience.

Just because you are imprecise doesn't mean that this is truth for everyone. You are used to adjusting for acceleration curve, while I (or anyone else) may be used to expecting pixel-perfect movement. As long as we calculate the mouse travel distance correctly, we will be equally precise.
Edited by fragamemnon - 2/9/16 at 4:29am
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post #80 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pente View Post

Nah.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20110421045930/http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/hardware/gg463319.aspx
Current mouse accel curve values on windows registry disagrees with this as well:
"SmoothMouseXCurve"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,15,6e,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,40,\
01,00,00,00,00,00,29,dc,03,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,28,00,00,00,00,00
"SmoothMouseYCurve"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,b8,5e,01,00,00,00,00,00,cd,4c,\
05,00,00,00,00,00,cd,4c,18,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,38,02,00,00,00,00

Anyways, any OCN member who actually cared would have EPP "enabled" anyways since we're a flat curve edited EPP registry values from http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html to get true linear mouse sensitivity movement.

Did you test it? Please test it. Move your mouse as slow as you can, measure distance, turn EPP on/off, measure again. It reduced sensitivity for me on Win10, also did it on Win7. The EPP works different since Vista, this article about XP is irrelevant.
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