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Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler - Page 4

post #31 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

Pay more for inferior cooling? Ok lets make calculations here.

H115i = 139
2x hybrid cooler = 149
total = 288
ease of installation = very easy



Custom loop:
H240 x2 = 169
240mm radiator = 49
2x 980 ti waterblock = 278
Reservoir, fittings, tubes, etc =49
total = 550
ease of install = hard

So much for paying more for less huh?

No offense, but I find CLCs on GPUs to be offensive.
post #32 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Problem is you are assuming only air coolers and CLCs exist. There are other forms of cooling as well, including (but not limited to) custom built liquid loops, and customizable pre built liquid kits. Both of these options provide that clean look you like, in fact an even cleaner one as you can properly route the tubes, etc, and have a large number of other benefits as well.

The only real downside compared to a CLC is the cost, and even that is basically null when you consider how much better the proper loops perform and the fact that they will outlive several CLCs.

Heck, you don't even have to go that far, as you can actually build a full custom version of a typical CLC for ~$65 - only a few bucks more than the very cheapest CLC on the market, and much less than the more expensive decent quality CLCs. Sure, I wouldn't want to use that cheap of a custom liquid loop, but that just goes to show how bad CLCs are, considering this loop would trump an actual CLC in every way.

Way to jump the gun bud. I've built two custom rigs myself and most of your post you compare AIOs and air coolers. I target those two because you did and the two are the most controversial. I would do a custom loop in a heartbeat but I would do it right and spend way more than both an AIO and a air cooler combined. In perspective of bashing one or the other I'd say Newegg's sale of the day rules my purchase and the AIO was cheap and easy to use.
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post #33 of 474
CLC's aren't a bad thing. I think they're easier to ship as part of a a pre-assembled pc than a big tower cooler.
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post #34 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

For the amount you spent on those 3 derpy CLCs, you could have built a custom loop that would look better, perform better, last longer, etc.

"Perfection" is probably the last thing I'd call those ugly tubes running haphazardly across your GPUs, or the woefully inefficient cooling and noise levels you are getting from that setup.

I'm not against CLCs, but I do understand that their practical application is much more niche than people seem to think. I've used CLCs in systems where small size, some flexibility in mounting, and lack of required maintenance were the most important factors, and under those conditions they do well. In just about any other scenario however, they are a very poor choice.

Not to mention the pump noise you invariably get from three separate CLC style block mounted pumps.
post #35 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

Pay more for inferior cooling? Ok lets make calculations here.

H115i = 139
2x hybrid cooler = 149
total = 288
ease of installation = very easy



Custom loop:
H240 x2 = 169
240mm radiator = 49
2x 980 ti waterblock = 278
Reservoir, fittings, tubes, etc =49
total = 550
ease of install = hard

So much for paying more for less huh?

Easy to put things in your favor when you use nonsense numbers.

First off, why on earth would you buy a reservoir, when both H240s already have one built in? Secondly, why are you buying 2 H240s in the first place? Thirdly, not a single one of your CLCs have a reservoir either, nor do they have full coverage blocks, nor do you have 480mm worth of rad space, so if you want to compare directly for the sake of price differences, you cannot use those in your custom loop either. Fourthly, why are you adding $50 of fittings and tube when you are already looking at two premade loops? You would only need enough fittings to connect the second GPU to the first one, as all the other fittings and tube are already included in your two kits.

Then we have problems with your pricing of your current setup. For instance, those hybrid 980TIs actually cost about $90 each compared to their aircooled counterparts, much more than the $75 you claim, especially when you consider that with the aircooled cards you would still have the air cooler itself, which gives you much more flexibility when it comes time to sell those cards, use them in other systems, troubleshoot them, etc. Actual cost of your configuration (generously excluding the cost of those aftermarket LED fans you are using, since technically you could replace the excellent fans that come with any decent AIO kit with those dinky LED fans as well, even though you would have to be a nut job to do so) is about $320.

A proper comparison would be something like the EX Predator 360, with a pair of universal water blocks for the GPUs, plus about $10 of fittings and tube. $320 total. Look at that; same price, better cooling, less noise, less tube running diagonally across your case, can be reconfigured in the future for new hardware compatibility at minimal (if any) cost, and unlike your CLCs won't literally kill itself after it either runs dry or corrodes... plus you get some air coolers for your GPUs in case those become useful, or I suppose you could sell them on ebay for a few bucks and save even more money as people seem to destroy the fans on theirs fairly frequently.

Would have been even cheaper had you gone full custom, and at that point I would have to count the cost of those LED fans against your current setup, but of course you seem to have some irrational fear that doing so is somehow difficult.

Actual difficulty of adding a universal block to two cards, screwing a couple fittings into those blocks, shoving a tube into two of those fittings, adding two more fittings, and attaching them to the Predator's already existing QDC? About the same as trying to figure out how to use the asinine CPU mounting system of that H115i and then finding places in your case to mount three separate radiators that are attached to fixed points with incredibly short tubes.
Edited by Zero4549 - 2/7/16 at 11:15pm
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post #36 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by glinux View Post

Way to jump the gun bud. I've built two custom rigs myself and most of your post you compare AIOs and air coolers. I target those two because you did and the two are the most controversial. I would do a custom loop in a heartbeat but I would do it right and spend way more than both an AIO and a air cooler combined. In perspective of bashing one or the other I'd say Newegg's sale of the day rules my purchase and the AIO was cheap and easy to use.
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Really? I've bolded my issue with your response. You might want to read the post you actually responded to again. I have no doubt that you've built a custom loop, but that is entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 
For the amount you spent on those 3 derpy CLCs, you could have built a custom loop that would look better, perform better, last longer, etc.

"Perfection" is probably the last thing I'd call those ugly tubes running haphazardly across your GPUs, or the woefully inefficient cooling and noise levels you are getting from that setup.

I'm not against CLCs, but I do understand that their practical application is much more niche than people seem to think. I've used CLCs in systems where small size, some flexibility in mounting, and lack of required maintenance were the most important factors, and under those conditions they do well. In just about any other scenario however, they are a very poor choice.

Not once do I mention air coolers. The first half of my post was very obviously comparing CLCs to custom loops (and implied AIO kits, but I'll let that so as it wasn't actually written). This is the half of my post that you actually responded to, as the other half (in smaller text) was a generalization that had nothing to do with "the clean area around the CPU" that the user I was quoting was showing off, and had everything to do with CLCs being beaten by something in almost any scenario. Although the second half of my post is irrelevant to this particular argument, I also didn't mention air coolers there (although they were obviously implied as one of the many "something" alternatives to CLCs).

So, exactly where is it that you get the notion presented in the bolded part of your quote?
Edited by Zero4549 - 2/7/16 at 11:29pm
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post #37 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Really? I've bolded my issue with your response. You might want to read the post you actually responded to again. I have no doubt that you've built a custom loop, but that is entirely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Not once do I mention air coolers. The first half of my post was very obviously comparing CLCs to custom loops (and implied AIO kits, but I'll let that so as it wasn't actually written). This is the half of my post that you actually responded to, as the other half (in smaller text) was a generalization that had nothing to do with "the clean area around the CPU" that the user I was quoting was showing off, and had everything to do with CLCs being beaten by something in almost any scenario. Although the second half of my post is irrelevant to this particular argument, I also didn't mention air coolers there (although they were obviously implied as one of the many "something" alternatives to CLCs).

So, exactly where is it that you get the notion presented in the bolded part of your quote?

Ok fine you're more active than OP my bad tongue.gif OP targets AIO and air coolers more than custom loops and I took it as those two were the main target of the post.

But I do know there are better options out there than an AIO or a air cooler but it depends on the application, ease of use, and maintenance. So far I havent touched my main rig (custom loop) in over a year and the server hasnt been touched since I slapped thermalpaste on it and screwed the fans on in push/pull. Both have had minimal maintenance and run 24/7 and so far I havent had issues.

I know there have been many problematic AIO systems in the past and they "seem" to be getting better but there will always be QC defects and horror stories from people improperly using them. Oh well. So far my personal experience has been great and price/cost/performance ratios have been in my favor. Will I say dont buy one? Will I suggest buying one regardless of the situation? these questions go toward both AIO and air coolers and custom loops and depending on the type of rig I build or someone else builds I will suggest the appropriate cooler with the appropriate research behind what the user needs in their situation. I can't say yay or nay for anything until I see the cards played.
 
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post #38 of 474
I agree with almost everything CrazyElf said.

I would like to add a few things and CrazyElf is more than welcome to add them to his great post or disagree with my thoughts.

CLCs are part of the AIO cooler group. AIO is All In One, CLC is Closed Loop Cooler. All CLCs are AIOs, but not all AIOs are CLCs. Some AIOs are not hermetically seeled like CLCs. Some AIOs are component kits per-assembled and filled at factory. Their component are much better quality with better and quieter performance. Individual components can be replaced, more radiators and / or waterblocks added and coolant changed or topped up as needed. As CrazyElf said, the Swiftech AIOs are like this .. The EK Predator is too, but it is brand new so I will not be recommending it until it has some track history. wink.gif
p

Most of the complaints about LGA1151 damage are unfounded. Good example of how tough the LGA1151 is are in this video http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Skylake-Codename-259478/Specials/Skylake-Gefaehrdung-durch-Kuehler-1180505/ Jump in to about 3 minute mark to see the first abuse .. and the real abuse is at 3:40 minutes. The mometary monitor blackout was loss of power to monitor.

Most reviews do their testing based on room temperature, not the actual temperature of air going into the cooler or radiator. They are not the same, especially if testing is done in a case! Even on a bench the air temp near the cooler radiator is usually a few degrees warmer than rest of room within a few minutes after load testing starts. Inside a case it is very common to see 10-20c warmer temps at cooler / radiator intake than room. What this means is most review results are far from accurate. At best they have a 2-5c margin of error. Their testing in a case without real time monitoring of cooler / radiator intake air temp means the testing at best is of how well their system performs with different cooler, but it does not give us any reliable data to compare how the coolers themselves compare.
post #39 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

Bought Define R5 case and Noctua D15.
Suffered from overheating GPU and CPU due to poor case airflow.
Tested out various fan setups and nothing helped.
Said screw it and removed the Nocuta D15, putting my H100i back in as a front intake.
GPU and CPU temps back to normal.
Moral of the story, ClC are more versatile and therefor work better with a larger range of setups. Air coolers are overrated.
Your problem is unique to say the least. I wish I was close enough that we could spend a day testing and comparing air vs clc in your system.



Too many posts to keep up'
Ambient temperature is a factor with any cooling system. After all we all use 'air' to cool our systems be directly or remotely after being transfered by water to a radiator. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by glinux View Post

Ok fine you're more active than OP my bad tongue.gif OP targets AIO and air coolers more than custom loops and I took it as those two were the main target of the post.
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But I do know there are better options out there than an AIO or a air cooler but it depends on the application, ease of use, and maintenance. So far I havent touched my main rig (custom loop) in over a year and the server hasnt been touched since I slapped thermalpaste on it and screwed the fans on in push/pull. Both have had minimal maintenance and run 24/7 and so far I havent had issues.

I know there have been many problematic AIO systems in the past and they "seem" to be getting better but there will always be QC defects and horror stories from people improperly using them. Oh well. So far my personal experience has been great and price/cost/performance ratios have been in my favor. Will I say dont buy one? Will I suggest buying one regardless of the situation? these questions go toward both AIO and air coolers and custom loops and depending on the type of rig I build or someone else builds I will suggest the appropriate cooler with the appropriate research behind what the user needs in their situation. I can't say yay or nay for anything until I see the cards played
.
I think the clues to what this tread isall about are that it is in the "Air Cooling" forum and has "CLC" in the title. biggrin.gif

Yes custom loop are better .. and also much more expensive and skill intensive. wink.gif



Saying a CLC is best 'choice' or 'needed' in some builds is rarely a valid argument Most all builds can be designed to use air cooling, but the choice of case is just as important as what GPU, CPU or motherboard is used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

I'll just add a note that according to specification a CPU socket is rated for up to 350 gram cooler wink.gif

While normally not a problem it can be if one is moving the case around. I have lost a motherboard to a Thermaltake Frio in a semi mobile system few years ago.
I believe the spec is 500 grams. Even some Intel stock coolers weight more than their specified socket weight load.



ghostrider85
1. it will obstruct everything and will cut your fingers.
While obstruction may be an occasional problem, cut fingers are rarely an issue. tongue.gif
2. it prevents you from accessing your ram slots.
Once built most of us rarely if ever need to access or RAM slots .. and hoses often do the same.
3. it will cover your fancy motherboard leds.
And we don't care.
(joking) biggrin.gif
4. it may damage your motherboard due to it's weight.
Weight of cooler only damages motherboards when improperly installed or handled. How many tens of thousands of big air coolers are in use and how many documented cases of motherboard damage are from heavy coolers and not abuse?.
5. you have to remove it when transporting.
Water cooling is also problematic when transporting.
6. can't pull fresh air directly from outside, can't exhaust hot air directly to outside.
Finally! thumb.gif A valid statement, but one esily resolved with airflow management. tongue.gif
7. ugly
Beauty is in the eys of beholder. While I do like the look of well aligned rigid tube builds, hoses are just ugly. tongue.gif
8. it might come in contact with the gpu pcb and short it, as seen on this pic
Water can and does short out systems too. tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisoner View Post

So if I made a thread about why you should only build a custom loop that would be received with high praise?
Probably not here, but after all this is the 'Air Cooling' forum. thumb.gif



Definitely agree with Zero4549 3x CLC instead of spend a little more and going with custom loop or a Swidtech, extra radiator and waterblocks would seem the better choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

and then i have to mess with it every month to keep it maintained? nevermind the initial hassle of building a custom loop.
my 980 ti 1500mhz tops out @ 52C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.
my 6600k 4.6ghz tops out @ 67C, do i need better cooling? absolutely not.

so, why do i need to waste my time building a custom loop then? absolutely nothing.
No, is the proper coolant is used you do not have any maintenance a year or two .. and if it's done right all that is needed than is to add additional corrosion and algae inhibitors.
post #40 of 474
After looking at THIS chart, I would assume the moral of the story is that it doesn't really matter what you use as the gains are minimal across most of the products. Unless you live somewhere that you seriously need the extra 2 degrees in cooling.

Maybe it's just me.
Bessy
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Bessy
(13 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k Msi Z77 MPower MSI R7950 Twinfrozr MSI R7950 Twinfrozr 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Corsair Dominator Platinum (4x4gb) ddr3 2133 CM... Western Digital 2tb Black Samsung 840 Pro Series 256gb SSD Corsair H100i 
OSPowerCase
Windows 8 Pro 64bit Corsair Professional Gold 850w Corsair Obsidian 650D 
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