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Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler - Page 6

post #51 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

You forgot to mention the noise.....three Corsair CLCs in one build? Must sound like the cleaning crew just came in to vacuum when you put a load on it, not to mention three Asetek pumps buzzing away all the time. With a custom loop you would get better temps with essentially no noise.

Glad somebody else sees that tubing as messy. The multi-CLC thing looks like someone threw a squid in the case - they are "one size fits none".
Last time I was visiting my son SoCal I was setting on the deck one morning drinking coffee when I started hearing a pack of 2-cycle engines buzzing along. Some oscillating while others buzz allong steadily and boht getting progressively louder as the minutes ticketed by. Turned out to be a landscaping crew that had contracts with about 50% of the houses for blocks around coming through the neighborhood on their weekily mowing trip.

When they got in son's block they were maybe not quite as loud as 3x CLCs in one case. biggrin.gif
post #52 of 474
Custom watercooling is best but too time consuming.
aio these just leak eventually, the swiftech and ek predator all have problems, best to go with custom.
clc, currently I have h100igtx, I wanted to try clc for the first time, it is fast setup and self contained unit, however first purchase was doa, pump was kaput, will probably return to scythe air cooler like mugen 5 or something scythe related.
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post #53 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You need to "mess" with much less often then you need to mess with a CLC. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
strictly speaking you only need to mess with a properly built loop when it evaporates enough liquid to empty its reservoir, which with a large reservoir could be several years. Meanwhile, you CLC also evaporates liquid, and runs dry much quicker because it does not have a res at all! Making things worse, your CLC runs with mixed metals, which given a few years, will corrode to the point of either leaking or performing so badly that you won't want the darned thing any more. CLCs are literally just small, poorly built loops that can't be opened. They aren't somehow immune to the problems of custom built loops, and unlike custom built loops, you can't take any steps to correct their issues.
Problem is you can't mess with the CLC, so when its time comes, you just have to toss the whole thing instead of spending 30 seconds refilling it. Many liquid cooling enthusiasts like to mess with their loops more frequently, but they in no way actually require more frequent maintenance than CLCs.

The hassle of building a custom loop? Laughable at best. If you can build a custom computer, you can just as easily build a custom loop. If you didn't build your own computer, then why do you care how much effort it took some other guy to build the loop? Besides, these days you can get AIO kits using all proper parts, that are customizable but don't actually require any assembly if you just want to use it as is.

Do you need better cooling? Of course not, but why would you choose to pay more for inferior cooling? Why would you pay more for a louder system? Why pay more for ugliness? Why pay more for something that won't last nearly as long? Nonsense.

Why should you build/buy a proper loop? Because you're already shelling out enough money for the superior product, so you might as well get that superior product. Otherwise you might as well just mail me that system of yours and I'll send you a nice raspberry Pi instead. It would be more than you need, and you don't care about throwing away money anyway, right?

thanks for chewing my rear off, i just purchased two swiftech 980 ti waterblocks and swiftech h240x2, build log coming soon.
post #54 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

thanks for chewing my rear off, i just purchased two swiftech 980 ti waterblocks and swiftech h240x2, build log coming soon.
helpinghand.gif
I think you will be very happy with the H240 X2. I haven't had a chance to try one, but those who have talk highly of them. And some of the people I've talked with test a lot of equipment and run very elaborate custom loops.
post #55 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by redshoulder View Post

Custom watercooling is best but too time consuming.
aio these just leak eventually, the swiftech and ek predator all have problems, best to go with custom.
clc, currently I have h100igtx, I wanted to try clc for the first time, it is fast setup and self contained unit, however first purchase was doa, pump was kaput, will probably return to scythe air cooler like mugen 5 or something scythe related.

last i heard swiftechs rma rate was 3% you make it see like they have alot of issues, i am sure eks is the same or near so.

you hear alot of bad esp on cn because they are directed to post there, however myh220 ( near first release ) is still going strong in my wifes pc, no maint no issues, no rmas , people like me dont normmally post - no news
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post #56 of 474
Of the 10 owners of Swiftech coolers 2 had problems. 1 was damaged in shipping. The other was one from a batch that had dirty radiators and the debris sometimes got into the pump and made noise. As far as I know they are all still going strong.
post #57 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

last i heard swiftechs rma rate was 3% you make it see like they have alot of issues, i am sure eks is the same or near so.

you hear alot of bad esp on cn because they are directed to post there, however myh220 ( near first release ) is still going strong in my wifes pc, no maint no issues, no rmas , people like me dont normmally post - no news

It's incredibly peculiar. Even before the H220 issues, people said this regardless of the fact that initial pieces had almost a zero RMA rate. Then the H220 issue seemed to have driven it into others' minds further, regardless of the excellent show by the X serires. Then you have the other issue - bad reviews from non-verified purchasers. There were actually bad reviews of the X2 on a couple of shopping sites prior to it ever being shipped.

Now, EK can spring leaks, and that's ok. Corsair can have leak and multitudes of pump issues, and that is fine in Joe Public's eye. Swiftech has an issue with a pump that they made good on? Travesty....
post #58 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

You forgot to mention the noise.....three Corsair CLCs in one build? Must sound like the cleaning crew just came in to vacuum when you put a load on it, not to mention three Asetek pumps buzzing away all the time. With a custom loop you would get better temps with essentially no noise.

Ok gotta admit that made me laugh tongue.gif I dont have hardly any noise with my Enermax CLC thankfully but I've heard some loud pumps in my time and if its true you wouldnt be able to stop me laughing to death xD

Glad somebody else sees that tubing as messy. The multi-CLC thing looks like someone threw a squid in the case - they are "one size fits none".
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

thanks for chewing my rear off, i just purchased two swiftech 980 ti waterblocks and swiftech h240x2, build log coming soon.

Haha dont worry bout that too much tongue.gif the quality on those parts are good and give you a great place to start with watercooling. I'm still interested to see how it performs under heavy load and if you join in for folding on those ti's you'd have a powerhouse biggrin.gif you have the capability to expand much more than any CLC and the options down the road are limitless!
 
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post #59 of 474
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFirnz View Post

After looking at THIS chart, I would assume the moral of the story is that it doesn't really matter what you use as the gains are minimal across most of the products. Unless you live somewhere that you seriously need the extra 2 degrees in cooling.

Maybe it's just me.

Actually it makes a huge difference. You didn't look at the other chart the sound pressure levels - note that some coolers are 20-30 db louder to get the same cooling performance. The important thing is not absolute performance, but performance to noise ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

I have always said two things -

First, CLCs are the polar opposite of custom loops. Loud with middling performance - exactly the opposite of why one uses liquid cooling.
Second, CLC threads should have their own section. They do not belong in the "Water Cooling" section. They need their own section.


This. I mean with custom loops, you get:
  • Quiet radiators with low fin density
  • Generalists that do well at all fans (EK's Coolstream XE is an example)
  • Loud, but unmatched performance with high performance fans (products like the HWLabs Black Ice GTX Gen 2 are made for this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Epic post, one of my fav responses was esp the " come part this in water cooling section if you want a discussion " @Poisoner it made me laugh.

Considering I have spent more on fans then most on their entire pc... won't even get into rads and pumps ( with the exception of itx builds ... maybe I will get into it( I only use 2 pumps in these ) I use 4 pumps per build. And the op is right on. With the exception of 2 pros ( really one) clcs - space vs big air. And use in servers which imo falls also into space

Either way I laugh at people who call clcs "water cooling"... they are not and it is an insult to all who do to wear that badge of honor


As far as fans go these days, I always recommend to people Gentle Typhoons. Other industrial fans like the Delta AFB series, the San Ace fans, and other Nidecs are pretty well made. Some people like the EK Vardar series as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

why you should not buy a big bulky heatsink:

1. it will obstruct everything and will cut your fingers.

2. it prevents you from accessing your ram slots.

3. it will cover your fancy motherboard leds.

4. it may damage your motherboard due to it's weight.

5. you have to remove it when transporting.

6. can't pull fresh air directly from outside, can't exhaust hot air directly to outside.

7. ugly

8. it might come in contact with the gpu pcb and short it, as seen on this pic Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


why you should buy clc:

PERFECTION!
20160204_161608-1.jpg

  1. Installation risks are with anything. If you use a CLC, you might bend the fins on the radiator by mistake for example. I've done so on water coolers (copper is very soft and easy to bend). You can hurt yourself with anything really. ON a custom loop, I've hurt my fingers before tightening compression fittings (use work gloves for that, btw). Many coolers, like the Cryorig R1 Ultimate are actually quite easy to install.
  2. Not true, as there are cutouts for the D15 and other heatsinks. You may have to remove the front fan, but you can still access them. That isn't hard to do.
  3. I suppose this one has some merit - blocks LEDs. That assumes though that you have decorative LEDs.
  4. Actually, anecdotally, how many stories do you hear about air coolers damaging motherboards? I hear far more about CLCs leaking.
  5. I would recommend removing a CLC while transporting as well. The risk of leaks is higher than I'd like. I have heard others recommend for many custom loops that ideally, one should drain them before sending as well. Either way, you probably safe if you transport the air cooler facing down.
  6. You can, with good case air flow. The CPU cooler will intake fresh air, go through the tower and exhaust out of the case exhaust. Actually CLCs have one drawback here, if you set your top 240 radiator to intake, although you are going to make your GPU warmer because you will exhaust warm air onto the GPU and motherboard. You are making your CPU cooler by a couple of degrees at the expense of your GPU.
  7. Looks are subjective, but I personally find AIOs with their fixed tubing to be visually unattractive.
  8. As far as shorting goes, I've indicated that there are now coolers that address that. Also, most GPUs these days come with backplates. Finally, if it is not touching, it will not short a GPU. By contrast, the risk of a CLC leaking and causing a short is far higher. Also note that with time, the water inside the loop will be far more conductive. Custom loop owners are advised to change their loop water every year, for good reason (it also keeps the corrosion at bay). That is not something that AIOs have.

I don't find that AIO to be good looking - while a well built custom loop is very appealing to me, a lot of AIOs kind of screams to me, custom loop wanna be. As one other person has noted, for the money spent on those AIOs, you could bought a water cooling kit, a pair of universal GPU water blocks, and ended up with considerably better performance. That and the water cooling parts will last a lot longer.
Edited by CrazyElf - 2/8/16 at 5:10pm
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post #60 of 474
I think you'll love this.

http://imgur.com/3vkqsXg
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