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Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler - Page 7

post #61 of 474

Decent arguments, but it is kinda defeated by one: Just plain personal preference for looks.

 

 

 

Air coolers and CLCs perform so close together on average, that in the end, it just comes down to aesthetics. Some people don't like a huge hunking chunk of metal hanging off their CPU. It takes up a massive amount of room in your case, and to some people, is just looks like crap.

 

Personally, unless it is a severe budget computer, I'd still use a CLC. Because in my eyes, that huge hunking chunk of metal looks like crap.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the fact that you use "you might bend the fins" on a radiator as being a con, kinda shows that you really don't know much about radiators do you? Bent fins on a radiator effectively do nothing. It only matters if they are soldered directly to the water channels (not that common anymore). Otherwise bent fins do nothing.

post #62 of 474
and that is your prerogative

however bent fins do affect performance, just because you can not see the affect does not mean it does not exist -

if enough are bent to affect performance then it is already too late

i do commercial ac work, which translates to pc cooling well, it is all about thermal transfer

i can not tell you how many RTUs ( units ) i have had to condemn because they had too many bent fins i have lost count- now i am talking in some cases radiators that are bigger then your car in length and small as 1ft by 1 ft .

it happens , and it starts slowly but eventually bent fins will have enough of an affect on airflow that it will matter !

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFirnz View Post

After looking at THIS chart, I would assume the moral of the story is that it doesn't really matter what you use as the gains are minimal across most of the products. Unless you live somewhere that you seriously need the extra 2 degrees in cooling.

Maybe it's just me.

Actually it makes a huge difference. You didn't look at the other chart the sound pressure levels - note that some coolers are 20-30 db louder to get the same cooling performance. The important thing is not absolute performance, but performance to noise ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

I have always said two things -

First, CLCs are the polar opposite of custom loops. Loud with middling performance - exactly the opposite of why one uses liquid cooling.
Second, CLC threads should have their own section. They do not belong in the "Water Cooling" section. They need their own section.


This. I mean with custom loops, you get:
  • Quiet radiators with low fin density
  • Generalists that do well at all fans (EK's Coolstream XE is an example)
  • Loud, but unmatched performance with high performance fans (products like the HWLabs Black Ice GTX Gen 2 are made for this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Epic post, one of my fav responses was esp the " come part this in water cooling section if you want a discussion " @Poisoner it made me laugh.

Considering I have spent more on fans then most on their entire pc... won't even get into rads and pumps ( with the exception of itx builds ... maybe I will get into it( I only use 2 pumps in these ) I use 4 pumps per build. And the op is right on. With the exception of 2 pros ( really one) clcs - space vs big air. And use in servers which imo falls also into space

Either way I laugh at people who call clcs "water cooling"... they are not and it is an insult to all who do to wear that badge of honor


As far as fans go these days, I always recommend to people Gentle Typhoons. Other industrial fans like the Delta AFB series, the San Ace fans, and other Nidecs are pretty well made. Some people like the EK Vardar series as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

why you should not buy a big bulky heatsink:

1. it will obstruct everything and will cut your fingers.

2. it prevents you from accessing your ram slots.

3. it will cover your fancy motherboard leds.

4. it may damage your motherboard due to it's weight.

5. you have to remove it when transporting.

6. can't pull fresh air directly from outside, can't exhaust hot air directly to outside.

7. ugly

8. it might come in contact with the gpu pcb and short it, as seen on this pic Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


why you should buy clc:

PERFECTION!
20160204_161608-1.jpg

  1. Installation risks are with anything. If you use a CLC, you might bend the fins on the radiator by mistake for example. I've done so on water coolers (copper is very soft and easy to bend). You can hurt yourself with anything really. ON a custom loop, I've hurt my fingers before tightening compression fittings (use work gloves for that, btw). Many coolers, like the Cryorig R1 Ultimate are actually quite easy to install.
  2. Not true, as there are cutouts for the D15 and other heatsinks. You may have to remove the front fan, but you can still access them. That isn't hard to do.
  3. I suppose this one has some merit - blocks LEDs. That assumes though that you have decorative LEDs.
  4. Actually, anecdotally, how many stories do you hear about air coolers damaging motherboards? I hear far more about CLCs leaking.
  5. I would recommend removing a CLC while transporting as well. The risk of leaks is higher than I'd like. I have heard others recommend for many custom loops that ideally, one should drain them before sending as well. Either way, you probably safe if you transport the air cooler facing down.
  6. You can, with good case air flow. The CPU cooler will intake fresh air, go through the tower and exhaust out of the case exhaust. Actually CLCs have one drawback here, if you set your top 240 radiator to intake, although you are going to make your GPU warmer because you will exhaust warm air onto the GPU and motherboard. You are making your CPU cooler by a couple of degrees at the expense of your GPU.
  7. Looks are subjective, but I personally find AIOs with their fixed tubing to be visually unattractive.
  8. As far as shorting goes, I've indicated that there are now coolers that address that. Also, most GPUs these days come with backplates. Finally, if it is not touching, it will not short a GPU. By contrast, the risk of a CLC leaking and causing a short is far higher. Also note that with time, the water inside the loop will be far more conductive. Custom loop owners are advised to change their loop water every year, for good reason (it also keeps the corrosion at bay). That is not something that AIOs have.

I don't find that AIO to be good looking - while a well built custom loop is very appealing to me, a lot of AIOs kind of screams to me, custom loop wanna be. As one other person has noted, for the money spent on those AIOs, you could bought a water cooling kit, a pair of universal GPU water blocks, and ended up with considerably better performance. That and the water cooling parts will last a lot longer.

how is a full block any harder then a clc on a gpu?

i can count the amount of cracked dies i have seen from full blocks on one hand, how many cracked dies due to clcs?
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post #63 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

It's incredibly peculiar. Even before the H220 issues, people said this regardless of the fact that initial pieces had almost a zero RMA rate. Then the H220 issue seemed to have driven it into others' minds further, regardless of the excellent show by the X serires. Then you have the other issue - bad reviews from non-verified purchasers. There were actually bad reviews of the X2 on a couple of shopping sites prior to it ever being shipped.

Now, EK can spring leaks, and that's ok. Corsair can have leak and multitudes of pump issues, and that is fine in Joe Public's eye. Swiftech has an issue with a pump that they made good on? Travesty....

Don't get me started on Corsair, lol. They can do hardware alright but damn their software and firmware's suck. Just the other evening my PC started just flat out powering off under load - the CPU self test LED was green, however, after touching the case of the PSU I found it to be so damn hot you cant keep hand on it - turned out damn fan was not running. Something to do with Corsair Link apparently, I have the fan set to constant 1700 rpm but damn thing was just not spinning. Under normal load its ok as the PSU is rated to be running up to about 500W with its fan off but when I started gaming things got so hot that the thing shut itslef down. However, after leaving the PC off the wall power for about 30 mins (while I zip tied an extra fan to the PSU as temporary emergency feature) then upon powering up again the damn fan was working. I still have 4 years of warranty left on that thing but its not like it will go through warranty if it's sometimes working (probably when inspected in service center). The PSU is AX1200i - it's not the only firmware issue on that - the limit currents not working on digital multi rail config (can still draw up to 100 A on rail which was supposed to be limited, for example, to 30 A max), new corsair link software versions just flat out not working or messing crap seriously up with AX1200i, the oldest available Corsair Link software in the Corsair webpage ALSO not working correctly with AX1200i (2.5, the version it shipped with is the last version that can read the PSU temp and fan speed sensors consistently, the oldest versions available on Corsair page is 2.7).

Then few weeks ago I helped a friend to troubleshoot his CLC - I believe it was H100i - he was idling at 70..75 C and hitting 105 C under load. Turned out the fans were not working at all. During reboot they powered on at full speed but when windows booted up they just flat out stopped. Was again some kind of firmware issue. After much foot massage he managed to get one fan working. Then after firmware update (few days later all the sudden corsair link turned up in his device manager that's when the immediately did the firmware update) all the fans started working again as they are supposed to.

So huh ... that's about it what I wanted to rant atm. I guess the bottom line is to avoid any Corsair product that ends with "i" like plague.
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post #64 of 474
or just support crappy companies like corsair

i didnt say that
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post #65 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Don't get me started on Corsair, lol. They can do hardware alright but damn their software and firmware's suck. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Just the other evening my PC started just flat out powering off under load - the CPU self test LED was green, however, after touching the case of the PSU I found it to be so damn hot you cant keep hand on it - turned out damn fan was not running. Something to do with Corsair Link apparently, I have the fan set to constant 1700 rpm but damn thing was just not spinning. Under normal load its ok as the PSU is rated to be running up to about 500W with its fan off but when I started gaming things got so hot that the thing shut itslef down. However, after leaving the PC off the wall power for about 30 mins (while I zip tied an extra fan to the PSU as temporary emergency feature) then upon powering up again the damn fan was working. I still have 4 years of warranty left on that thing but its not like it will go through warranty if it's sometimes working (probably when inspected in service center). The PSU is AX1200i - it's not the only firmware issue on that - the limit currents not working on digital multi rail config (can still draw up to 100 A on rail which was supposed to be limited, for example, to 30 A max), new corsair link software versions just flat out not working or messing crap seriously up with AX1200i, the oldest available Corsair Link software in the Corsair webpage ALSO not working correctly with AX1200i (2.5, the version it shipped with is the last version that can read the PSU temp and fan speed sensors consistently, the oldest versions available on Corsair page is 2.7).

Then few weeks ago I helped a friend to troubleshoot his CLC - I believe it was H100i - he was idling at 70..75 C and hitting 105 C under load. Turned out the fans were not working at all. During reboot they powered on at full speed but when windows booted up they just flat out stopped. Was again some kind of firmware issue. After much foot massage he managed to get one fan working. Then after firmware update (few days later all the sudden corsair link turned up in his device manager that's when the immediately did the firmware update) all the fans started working again as they are supposed to.

So huh ... that's about it what I wanted to rant atm.
I guess the bottom line is to avoid any Corsair product that ends with "i" like plague.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact most of 'their' hardware is actually designed and made by other companies and they might be trying to do their own software?
post #66 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Don't get me started on Corsair, lol. They can do hardware alright but damn their software and firmware's suck. Just the other evening my PC started just flat out powering off under load - the CPU self test LED was green, however, after touching the case of the PSU I found it to be so damn hot you cant keep hand on it - turned out damn fan was not running. Something to do with Corsair Link apparently, I have the fan set to constant 1700 rpm but damn thing was just not spinning. Under normal load its ok as the PSU is rated to be running up to about 500W with its fan off but when I started gaming things got so hot that the thing shut itslef down. However, after leaving the PC off the wall power for about 30 mins (while I zip tied an extra fan to the PSU as temporary emergency feature) then upon powering up again the damn fan was working. I still have 4 years of warranty left on that thing but its not like it will go through warranty if it's sometimes working (probably when inspected in service center). The PSU is AX1200i - it's not the only firmware issue on that - the limit currents not working on digital multi rail config (can still draw up to 100 A on rail which was supposed to be limited, for example, to 30 A max), new corsair link software versions just flat out not working or messing crap seriously up with AX1200i, the oldest available Corsair Link software in the Corsair webpage ALSO not working correctly with AX1200i (2.5, the version it shipped with is the last version that can read the PSU temp and fan speed sensors consistently, the oldest versions available on Corsair page is 2.7).

Then few weeks ago I helped a friend to troubleshoot his CLC - I believe it was H100i - he was idling at 70..75 C and hitting 105 C under load. Turned out the fans were not working at all. During reboot they powered on at full speed but when windows booted up they just flat out stopped. Was again some kind of firmware issue. After much foot massage he managed to get one fan working. Then after firmware update (few days later all the sudden corsair link turned up in his device manager that's when the immediately did the firmware update) all the fans started working again as they are supposed to.

So huh ... that's about it what I wanted to rant atm. I guess the bottom line is to avoid any Corsair product that ends with "i" like plague.

I have only one thing to say.....why, in God's name, would you possibly be using Corsair Link for anything????? Get it out of your PC. And remember "friends don't let friends drive drunk"? Get it out of your friend's next. The AX PSUs are the only item Corsair makes that I feel is an absolute top tier piece - why let that horrid software mess with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

or just support crappy companies like corsair

i didnt say that

They really are the Apple of PC components. Bilk consumers out of every cent possible while decreasing quality and cost at every turn - basically selling Hondas with Bentley window stickers. Can't blame them, though. They are in business to make profit, not great components, and they are astoundingly good at their business.
post #67 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have only one thing to say.....why, in God's name, would you possibly be using Corsair Link for anything????? Get it out of your PC. And remember "friends don't let friends drive drunk"? Get it out of your friend's next.
The AX PSUs are the only item Corsair makes that I feel is an absolute top tier piece - why let that horrid software mess with it? Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
They really are the Apple of PC components. Bilk consumers out of every cent possible while decreasing quality and cost at every turn - basically selling Hondas with Bentley window stickers. Can't blame them, though. They are in business to make profit, not great components, and they are astoundingly good at their business.
ROFL
Does Sorcair actually make their AX PSUs? I thought the OEM was someone like Seasonic or similar.
post #68 of 474
depends on which one, they have changed a few times afaik
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Pioneer BDR-208DBK Blu-ray Writer Swiftech H20-220 EDGE HD Liquid Cooling Kit Swiftech Komodo 7970 Swiftech MCP-35X2 
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Swiftech Apogee HD Windows 7 Windows 8 LG E2242 
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post #69 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

depends on which one, they have changed a few times afaik
Does Sorcair many any of their PSU?
Specifically do they make any of their AX series PSU? tongue.gif
post #70 of 474
AX= Seasonic, AXi=Flextronics.
   
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