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Why you should probably not buy a CLC cooler - Page 9

post #81 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smanci View Post

Isn't 13,4 liters, very close to the size of Ncase M1, somewhat compact? poke.gif

And you can fit a cooler like D15 in a case like that, with a high end GPU like 980 Ti?
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post #82 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded War View Post

Personally, I disagree with OP. My H100i cools my 3770K 4.5Ghz to <65°C gaming temps with some Noctua PWM fans turned all the way down with a resistor to slow them down even further for silent operation.

Its way easier to clean the radiator dust than on a giant heatsink and perform maintenance on the system. Those big air coolers block off all the fan ports and leave no room to swap out memory modules. Its also aesthetically pleasing unlike any air cooler that world perform similar.
That is not very good. My 3770k @ 4.2Ghz with Cryorig C1 gets me 56c while I game. With fan speeds at 30% (450rpm).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post

Well the big coolors might fit in larger ITX cases, I was talking about the compact ones
Fractal Node 304 can fit 165mm coolers. We got a D14 in a build were working on.
You can also fit in the Silverstone SG09 / SG10
Edited by Sp33d Junki3 - 2/9/16 at 6:47am
    
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post #83 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Some of the stuff they do (market) is pretty decent. Cases, for example. Although to be fair at these prices these should be made of aluminum instead of steel and plastic. Their PSU lineup is in general ok (other than "i" ofc). Ofc if one knows whats hes after its often better to just go for the OEM for said PSU but .. well ... most of thoese OEM models are not available on local supply chains and going with direct-order-from-china might have other implications (hard to get warranty, customs fees, possibility of getting counterfeit stuff and then dealing with it somehow, etc etc.)

But firmware and corsair link .. uhh .. I suspect a random monkey typing something up for arduino that is somehow duct taped to a random PSU might offer better reliability than whatever they have inside these "i" things that is supposed to be interacting with the PC.

As far as using one goes tho ... well .. I predominantly have used it to make sure my fan always works as my case airflow suck atm so bad that the corsair ax1200i is practically solely responsible for providing exhaust for the CPU area. For the friend with H100i - he had no idea his link was hooked up at all (preassembled system from one of the local shops it was) until his fans went out. Unplugging the link after the fact and rebooting did not help that condition anymore. Until after some good amount of trial and error it turned out one of the fans started spinning when he plugged the fan header to the other hole (intended to be used when doing push-pull). The shop had done good cable management so none of his fan headers on fans were exposed or I would have told him to just plug all his fans into motherboard headers and be done with it. The whole helping thing was done over Skype as hes atm in Holland with his desktop and I'm in Estonia wink.gif

All that said - I can see myself perhaps one day using a CLC for some kind of particularly small from factor project. Although TBH it's somewhat unlikely because of all the custom loop pieces lying around already from the past projects I have done so I would be more likely to just slap a DC-LT pump in there somewhere (it's about the size of 2 EUR coin while providing approx 2 mH2O pressure and about 100 L/h flow, in theory) and use the rad as reserviour as well. Then again any such loop would more likely be for the GPU than for the CPU. That is where the water cooling, CLC or otherwise does all the magic compared to just plain old air. The difference is noise levels is beyond amazing.

Speaking of CLC's - Alphacool is supposed to release a "custom starter kit" near weeks. GPX Pro, basically a hybrid block with pump on the gpu core block + large aluminum heat-sink custom fitted for specific model for everything else, regular G 1/4 fittings. I do believe their intention was also to sell it prefilled as a CLC (like) offering although I believe they think that most people will just buy the kit and assemble it themselves with the tubing length as needed. I can see myself using one - assuming the "pro" core is not too pricy - I already have a alphacool block for 390X just scratching my head trying to figure out where I could possibly mount the damn pump. So if the GPX pro core is less than 70 EUR I might be tempted to just grab that instead of the current regular GPX block on that thing to get away without a separate pump (assuming first reviews are favorable).
Sorry, but a CLC CAN NOT BE a 'custom starter kit'.
CLC = a system sealed at the factory that cannot be opened up, components changes or added.
Custom starter kit = components in a kit that can be changed and / or added to.

See the difference? biggrin.gif

A pre-assembled and filled 'custom starter kit' is an AIO, but not a CLC.

Just as the Swiftech pre-assembled and filled kits are AIO, but not CLC.
post #84 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp33d Junki3 View Post

That is not very good. My 3770k @ 4.2Ghz with Cryorig C1 gets me 56c while I game. With fan speeds at 30% (450rpm).

Agreed. And that is part of the problem. Those results (65C "while gaming" - we can talk about what a useless measurement that is at another time - on a 3770K with low fan speeds) are considered "good" by the CLC crowd, while they are simply average results with a top $49 air cooler.
post #85 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarlatano View Post

Agreed. And that is part of the problem. Those results (65C "while gaming" - we can talk about what a useless measurement that is at another time - on a 3770K with low fan speeds) are considered "good" by the CLC crowd, while they are simply average results with a top $49 air cooler.
No need to be diplomatic about it.

Simply put, the temperatures are extremely high compared to a decent air cooler are similar noise levels .. for pretty much any $49 cooler, at least any I would be look at without laughing so hard tears would be running down my face. tongue.gif.
But i'm not sure whal al is classed as $49 coolers. i do know TRUE Spirit 140 Rev. A is $49.90 on Amazon, but it is a top tier $50 air cooler, not a a 'top $49 air cooler. biggrin.gif
post #86 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded War View Post

Personally, I disagree with OP. My H100i cools my 3770K 4.5Ghz to <65°C gaming temps with some Noctua PWM fans turned all the way down with a resistor to slow them down even further for silent operation.

Its way easier to clean the radiator dust than on a giant heatsink and perform maintenance on the system. Those big air coolers block off all the fan ports and leave no room to swap out memory modules. Its also aesthetically pleasing unlike any air cooler that world perform similar.
If H100i with expensive replacement fans is cooling your 3770k @4.5GHz at <65c, almost any decent air cooler would do the dasme for about half the cost.
No, it's definitley not easier to clean if fans are push, and not even an issue if all intakes are filtered.
As for blocking fan headers (I assume that is what you mean by 'fan ports') and swapping RAM, it depend on cooler and mobo, but if build is done right there is no need to be swapping them. Both rarely fail.
Aesthetics are an individual thing. Big hoses hanging haphazardly in a case look terrible to me.
And we have not even address the difference in dependablity between air and CLC
Air has a problem it's a fan. Easy and cheap fix and system is till functional while new fan is being gotten.
CLC has a problem it's a pump or leak, either of which make the cooler non-functional. Expensive replacement and system is not usable until replaced.

My setup for the H100 fits in different than allot of cases and is unique to the 600t. My fans aren't even inside the case, technically speaking they are externally mounted. But they are still enclosed under the mesh of the case and out of sight. So it's super easy to clean when all I have to do is blow on the radiator and 90% of the dust flys out the top with the fan exhaust. Then all I need to do is take my GPU out and use the air compressor on it.
My rig (Click to show)

When I had a large air cooler with similar performance, I had to unhook everything and carry my PC to the shop and use my air compressor to get it cleaned. It turned into a 30 minute job by the time you get everything all hooked back up again, when it takes me 5 minutes now.

I won't argue the reliability of a air cooler because it's a completely valid point, but my H100i has served me well for 3 years now without issue. For me, the aesthetics of the water cooler was allot better than having a giant aluminum block and I would definitely buy it again.
post #87 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp33d Junki3 View Post


That is not very good. My 3770k @ 4.2Ghz with Cryorig C1 gets me 56c while I game. With fan speeds at 30% (450rpm).
You can also fit in the Silverstone SG09 / SG10

You are comparing it to your rear exhausted single GPU rig and I was posting my worst temps I ever had as an example.

That was with two modded and overclocked 7970's that had custom internally exhausted heatsinks and my H100i radiator set as exhaust at the top of the case. So the H100i taking the heat of two top end GPUs and CPU through it and maintained temps under 65°C.
Pic (Click to show)

With a single GTX 970 in my rig, the temperature is much lower than the 65°C I mentioned. It would be even lower than it is now with a reference cooler like you have.
post #88 of 474
I think the "guide" (first post) is biased and not realistic. I completely agree with freedom of speach, but I think you should outline more that this is your opinion (and that you should also mention the pros for CLCs, not only the contras)

You've taken 1 comparison from air coolers vs CLCs, in which the air cooler comes out very well. Tweaktown tests them in an open-air environment (InWIn S-frame). 95% of the cases has far less airflow.

The problem is, however, that these tests are not always representative: case airflow is a major factor (like many others have already pointed out). An other important aspect is the amount of heat. Air coolers work great until a certain point of heat (in Watt): the point where the heat-pipes become the bottleneck in heat transfer. Reviews have shown that CLC's perform better than top-of-the-line air coolers at high heat outputs.

There are other arguments for CLCs:
Size: not all cases can easily fit a big cooler like the NH-D15 (which you use for comparison)
Installation: Most CLC's are very easy to install (at least the Corsair hydro's I've worked with)
Heat management: high amounts of heat are transferred more easily by water than by heat-pipes.
Aesthetics: Many people prefer a clean AIO over a bulky air cooler
Require the same maintenance as air coolers (just blow out dust): A LOT LESS compared to custom loops.

As for the "lower chances of failure", while it is true, the chance that an AIO fails is still very low.
Yes, there are some people who complained about leaks, pump failures, but this is a very small percentage out of those use them.

Yes, they are expensive, but so are Titans: people still buy.
As for cooling, temperatures: I'd love to see a comparison of a H100i GTX (with Gentle Typhoons) vs an ND-H15 in an NZXT S340 with an overclocked 5820K and aftermarket GTX 980 Ti.
   
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post #89 of 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by xioros View Post

I think the "guide" (first post) is biased and not realistic. I completely agree with freedom of speach, but I think you should outline more that this is your opinion (and that you should also mention the pros for CLCs, not only the contras)

You've taken 1 comparison from air coolers vs CLCs, in which the air cooler comes out very well. Tweaktown tests them in an open-air environment (InWIn S-frame). 95% of the cases has far less airflow.

The fact that Tweaktown's numbers were used were my big gripe with the initial post, also. However, my issue with them is that their results always favor CLCs (but strangely not open loop AiO.....guess we know who is paying advertising dollars there), and that 95% of people don't use their coolers in open air. Not to mention the fact that they simply use a database of deltas rather than testing comparison units at the same time. I guess I am saying that I find the numbers suspect, at best.
post #90 of 474
Imo, this sound like a tall ram vs low ram argument.

Maybe we can start a "why you should probably not buy tall rams?"

Coolers are coolers, rams are rams, they serve their purpose(while may look different or made different) and everyone can have their preference.
Edited by baii - 2/9/16 at 12:55pm
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