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[ExtremeTech]An end to scaling: Intel’s next-generation chips will sacrifice speed to reduce power - Page 12

post #111 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Sure, but they have a fight on their hands in the tablet and phone sector unlike the monopoly they enjoy in the x86 market. Don't forget that, although products like the Surface Pro enjoy the power of x86 compatibility, they are still far too expensive to make up the majority of tablet sales and ARM chips dominate that market...

For Intel, Apple is probably going to beat it before AMD. Just look at how fast A9X has gotten. Yes its not x86 but does it even matter. If the future is ARM then most apps will have to be build for ARM.
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post #112 of 161
I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that current high end CPUs are"plenty fast enough" for gaming. Maybe for a specific game, but not gaming in general, there are still a ton of strategy and simulation games that are heavily limited by single threaded performance, and that's not going to change any time soon. If CPUs suddenly get twice as fast, games will be made to take advantage of that performance.
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post #113 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

If only we can figure out how to efficiently split up computing tasks like that it could be really impressive. Right now it is hard to imagine distributed computing working well for all tasks. It has been hard to avoid being limited by single threaded performance for many applications even today, nearly 10 years after two or more cores became normal for consumer desktops. However, I do believe software has a lot of room to improve in ways we cannot predict, humans have not been doing software for very long yet.

There are also new CPU designs, like this chip from IBM, so if we figure out how to program it we might meet the overlords sooner than expected. wink.gif

Hopefully as we approach the age of node-based computers, the software will be written to scale to other nodes. As it is right now, our data infrastructure would have to grow about 100x more on the bandwidth front for this to be a truly living, breathing entity. Otherwise, the system will always be starved for bandwidth. The processors will also have to be designed in such a way to seek out other nodes for additional processing automatically and without input. After that, it would be feasible to theorize that we have a low-level artificial intelligence among all the nodes... and that opens up a whole new can of worms.

The future is an exciting time. I'm just not sure I want Skynet or the Matrix just yet. Maybe give humanity a few years to get over this newfound obsession with Virtual and Augmented Reality. tongue.gif
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post #114 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that current high end CPUs are"plenty fast enough" for gaming. Maybe for a specific game, but not gaming in general, there are still a ton of strategy and simulation games that are heavily limited by single threaded performance, and that's not going to change any time soon. If CPUs suddenly get twice as fast, games will be made to take advantage of that performance.

I agree. Until I can run FSX with every single slider maxed out (especially traffic density) at a constant 60 FPS, I'm gonna say not fast enough. tongue.gif

But seriously we're still got a looooooooooooooong way to go before we reach the point of "plenty fast enough" for single threaded performance.
post #115 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

I agree. Until I can run FSX with every single slider maxed out (especially traffic density) at a constant 60 FPS, I'm gonna say not fast enough. tongue.gif

But seriously we're still got a looooooooooooooong way to go before we reach the point of "plenty fast enough" for single threaded performance.

I agree. That's why it's disheartening to hear that they seem to be giving up on performance improvements in favor of energy efficiency that nobody in the desktop world cares about.
post #116 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I agree. That's why it's disheartening to hear that they seem to be giving up on performance improvements in favor of energy efficiency that nobody no enthusiast in the desktop world cares about.

FTFY

Plenty of Joe Schmoes care about energy consumption. What you mean this thing only needs HALF the power? Sweet! Oh it's got an Energy Star sticker too, now I gotta buy this. And HOLY CRAP it's a HYBRID model, just imagine the savings on my utility bill!!! *throws wallet at item, then passes out from a heart attack*
post #117 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

If only we can figure out how to efficiently split up computing tasks like that it could be really impressive. Right now it is hard to imagine distributed computing working well for all tasks. It has been hard to avoid being limited by single threaded performance for many applications even today, nearly 10 years after two or more cores became normal for consumer desktops. However, I do believe software has a lot of room to improve in ways we cannot predict, humans have not been doing software for very long yet.

There are also new CPU designs, like this chip from IBM, so if we figure out how to program it we might meet the overlords sooner than expected. wink.gif

Very interesting article, thanks.

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post #118 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I'm going to have to disagree with the idea that current high end CPUs are"plenty fast enough" for gaming. Maybe for a specific game, but not gaming in general, there are still a ton of strategy and simulation games that are heavily limited by single threaded performance, and that's not going to change any time soon. If CPUs suddenly get twice as fast, games will be made to take advantage of that performance.

I agree. Until I can run FSX with every single slider maxed out (especially traffic density) at a constant 60 FPS, I'm gonna say not fast enough. tongue.gif

But seriously we're still got a looooooooooooooong way to go before we reach the point of "plenty fast enough" for single threaded performance.

Then demand developers scale their software to many cores rather than a few. Regardless of what you like multi core processing has been the future for years but developers aren't making use of them. It is hard but it's inevitable.

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post #119 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

He has a point. Even if ZEN performs better than expected, it's still 2 generations behind. It took AMD 5+ years to do just that. Why bother with competition that's behind a decade.

Well maybe the new Zen architecture,a performance per watt design, is like 5 years ahead of Intel. Maybe this article implies Zen is a success. wink.gif
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post #120 of 161
the only reason why we're still craving for IPC increases is because software programmers aren't making their softwares more efficient.
seriously, they could make their programs leaner, taking less CPU usage for the same tasks, which makes them perform faster without needing a faster CPU.
not to mention proper multi-core support isn't even there yet, we're still bound to core0 being the core for the primary thread.


and on a side note, IPC increases are hardly interesting these days, specially when the current trend and future applications are targeting more cores.
e.g. i'd be more interested to see a $200 6core processor with an IPC equal to that of Haswell, than a $200 4core processor with +50% IPC of Haswell.
Edited by epic1337 - 2/10/16 at 10:45pm
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