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post #11 of 33
It's comparable to the 6700HQ in performance but only supports Sata3 ssd's. You won't be able to run a PCI-e NVMe ssd like all the new laptops are capable of using which are way faster. Sata3 ssd can only do 550mb/s tops cuz the sata port limitations. A new NVME ssd can do over 5000mb/s once the drives get that fast or even faster. Right now with my 512gig Samsung 950 Pro I'm getting 2650mb/s reads and 1600mb/s writes and that's from a single drive, no raid 0 or anything. Some laptops like MSI's can put 2 of those in a raid 0 and be twice as fast seeing 5000mb/s which would now be 10 times faster than a fast Sata3 ssd. You remember how fast it was going from a mechanical drive to a ssd? Well going from a Sata3 ssd to a PCI-E NVME ssd is that same type of a jump in speed. Things fly on those drives. I can't wait til next year when some new drives come out and are even faster yet.
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post #12 of 33
considering most of the laptops coming out with NVMe are still having issues with early BIOS'es I really wouldnt call it a straight loss considering Sata3 is fast enough for consumer work loads, though if its a feature your dying to have then thats up to you. Personally I owuldnt mind not having it, but it would be a perk for future upgradability later on.

There are 970m's with 6GB vram, but finding one at that price would be a little difficult.

At 1100 your in 965m territory unless there is a sale and even then its few and far between.

G751JT-WH71 970m 3GB for 1200

Gigabyte P37Wv4-BW1 w/ 970m 6GB for 1300
    
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post #13 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

considering most of the laptops coming out with NVMe are still having issues with early BIOS'es I really wouldnt call it a straight loss considering Sata3 is fast enough for consumer work loads, though if its a feature your dying to have then thats up to you. Personally I owuldnt mind not having it, but it would be a perk for future upgradability later on.

There are 970m's with 6GB vram, but finding one at that price would be a little difficult.

At 1100 your in 965m territory unless there is a sale and even then its few and far between.

G751JT-WH71 970m 3GB for 1200

Gigabyte P37Wv4-BW1 w/ 970m 6GB for 1300

The only laptop with bios issues with NVMe drives is the Asus G752's. There isn't any other laptop that I've seen having issues with those drives. MSI's laptops you can put those in Raid 0 which is far above most others. If people are trying to spend $1100 on a new laptop TODAY or soon, why would you tell them not to get the latest stuff or technology?!? I've seen this from you quite a few times to not say something this time. I understand you are using a older laptop and you aren't buying a new one. That doesn't mean you should dislike all the new Tech that out or coming out and always say what you have is fine for everyone else that's spending THEIR MONEY now. I would never tell someone to not buy something just cuz it's better than what I had because I'm using 4 year old hardware. Don't keep others at the same level of tech as you just cuz you aren't spending money buddy. That's not fair to anyone here. This is OVERCLOCK.net. WE SPEND MONEY. Yes on stuff that is ridiculous sometimes but it's our money to spend. Nobody is saying anything about your laptop or needing to stay at the same performance as yours. Let them buy things that are badass or fast or new. Let them be happy with it. NVME SSD's are SICK FAST and SHOULD be bought in every new laptop from now on. Especially when someone is spending at least $1000+ . You would be a fool to not get NVME technology in a laptop if you spent that much today or in the near future. I can't agree with all that you say anymore because you are giving wrong info for some people based on what you have and I've now seen it too many times. Sorry bud, but can't

OP, you should definitely be getting a laptop that has NVMe technology hands down. It's the next step in performance that makes a huge leap over what has been used, sata3. It's very early for the NVMe tech, but just now getting a Samsung 950 Pro 512gig ssd gets you 2500mb/s reads and 1500mb/s writes. That read speed is 5 times faster than the fastest sata3 ssds. That does show up huge in how your pc works. Every program that's installed uses Read speeds to read the info that's installed on your drive. If you use programs that use lots of data, that will make a huge difference. Something that could take 50 seconds now will take 10 seconds. Or from 10 seconds to 2 seconds. Install times are WAY faster. Game loads way faster. Everything is WAY FASTER LOL. It's worth it for sure. That's one of the main reasons it's hard for me to recommend anyone to buy a older laptop even if it's new off the shelf that has the 4th gen Core i series cpus that don't have NVMe tech. It's still new like I said, and there's only been a few drives made so far but they are great. In a year from now, or even only a couple months away Samsung could be dropping a new 1050 Pro or whatever they call it and it could be twice as fast as the 2500mb/s Read speeds now. Just if they went to making a 1 Terabyte 950 Pro the Read speeds could be over 3000mb/s easy and write speeds could be in the 2000's or higher. The next line they drop as in 1050 or whatnot could end up being 5000mb/s read and 4000mb/s writes. Put 2 of those in a MSI GT72 in Raid 0 and be getting 10,000mb/s Reads eek.gif LOL that would be 20 times faster than the fastest sata3 ssd that's out now. Or 20 times faster than anything you've ever used if you haven't experienced NVMe in person yet.

Your spending too much to not get NVMe tech. $1100 should be getting that for sure thumb.gif

Oh, and I ran a test for you just to see what would happen. In the game "Rise of the Tomb Raider" I mentioned that I'm playing right now, I'm running the game maxed out, except for a couple options I turn off that blur things. I don't like anything being blurred, just personal preference. The game is using 6-6.5gigs of Vram @ 1080p. I turned DSR on to the options of using 2x and 4x.. 2x gives me a res of around 2700x1530 ish and 4x is 4k (3840x2160).. Going from 1080p to 2x DSR with the same settings, it went from 6gigs of Vram to 7gigs just from the higher res, and then going to 4x DSR went up to 8gigs of Vram. You can see how much Vram is getting used up in the higher resolutions and that should give you an idea to how much Vram you want to get in your new GPU in a laptop if playing on that 30" is major to you, or at least playing on it at it's native res. If you want to play at 1080p on that 30" then that's a different story. I always like to play the native res to every monitor or screen (tv) I use. It always looks better that way.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the MSI Gt72 has a MXM gpu that can be pulled out and replaced down the road. Next year you could find a 6gig 970m or 8gig 980m for pretty cheap then. The gpu you pull out will still be sell-able to those that have a older gpu or way less of a gpu. Right now it looks that I could sell the 970m I have for $400 easy as it costs about $500 new. Then I could upgrade to a 980m or 980 if I wanted and only spend a couple hundred more.It's just nice having that option to upgrade the gpu later down the road. That's what kills all laptops that are for gaming. Not being able to upgrade means whole new laptop and that's very costly. I'm sure there's others that have MXM gpu's but you'd have to look that up. I know some MSI's have them tho. Just don't think the very thin ones are MXM. The Apache GS70 or something like that should be MXM too and those are around $1000-1200 and pretty close to the GT72

EDIT:

Just for kicks I did a search on Xotic PC since you can customize laptops anyway you want from them pretty much. But I looked at the cheapest Barebones setup which is the MSI GT72 Dominator and I only chose the GTX970M with 6 gigs of Vram and the base price with that 6gig gpu is starting at $1199. That is a HELL OF A GOOD DEAL for getting the 6 gig 970m just to let you know. You can do whatever you want with it from there. That setup shows it has a 4710HQ cpu tho which is a 4th gen and wouldn't have NVMe tech in that one, but I'm sure you could click around til you got just what you wanted from it. You should check them out tho while looking for your new laptop.

http://www.xoticpc.com/force-msi-1781-22-429-970m-msi-gt72-barebones.html


LOL, then just going back to the site and looking at more options to see if the price could get lower, I see the sale on the side that's 3% off for cash purchase, or I'm sure with CC or Debit card just buying the thing out right. That's now even cheaper. That's only $63 over your budget now, but getting a 6 gig 970m, I think you can stretch that budget just a little can't you? LOL biggrin.gif


Here's a different model MSI GP72 Leopard that has a Core i7 6700HQ Skylake (which should have NVMe tech) and this one I chose the 960m with 4 gigs of Vram and this came out to $1099 which is in your budget. Just trying to help you find some options or see what you are able to get into with that price range. Don't know if I would recommend this over getting the GT72 with the 6 gig 970 which should be way more of a beast really.
http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gp72-leopard-pro-280.html
Edited by Hambone07si - 2/10/16 at 9:21pm
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post #14 of 33
Um, what?

Just because I make the best use of what I have isn't any reason to not suggest the latest and greatest. The issue here is that you are advising a brand because of support of NVMe which should be a red flag in its own right. Just because you haven't personally experienced issues with the new drives beyond the Asus laptop doesn't mean other haven't experience similar. People have been experiencing issues with not getting full performance in the latest dell laptops as well as specifically the p650rg refresh has also seen difficulty getting the drives to show up. Dell and Clevo, two rather large oem' s.

All I've said is its new tech, there will be growing pains. Will they be resolved across the board? Surely, but people aren't buying these machines for the benefit of hopefully it works in the future, it's typically so they can use them as soon as they get them.

Regarding your comment on my older hardware, I don't even have that anymore. I sold it to make a budget for the recent refresh. You don't know these things because you have no reason to, so let's not make further assumptions.

Furthermore sata3 ssd's still more than plenty for consumer workloads. Please reread. Consumer workloads. Unless your tasks are directly IO Intensive then it's a wasted expenditure. It's like buying a Ferrari to drive down the street to your buddies pad, we know it's fast and it's pretty cool but unless you can directly benefit from its peak potential then it's a waste. DuckieHo is who brought up this valid point, and it's also in the cons here.

Furthermore it seems like the OP is worried more about vram and gpu grunt more so than storage speeds so really that is what we should be helping him with and not pushing an NVMe drive. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you can find a 6gb 970m with a quad i7 and NVMe for under 1100 pre tax then by all means post it. I couldn't find one yet.

Lets just get this out of the way, if he had a larger budget then he would be able to play a bit more with more technologies then by all means jump on it. At 1100 you have to look at the priority which is unless Im mistaken the 6GB 970m because of the type of monitor he wants to use.
Edited by TheReciever - 2/10/16 at 10:21pm
    
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post #15 of 33
Doesn't every pc run a OS that we use? Aren't the OS's installed on a hard drive? It's used 100% of the time. That's the point I'm making and that you will see the speed increase by 5 times in almost everything. It's all that much faster with a NVMe drive. Every map that loads in games, or going into a new area or whatever, you see that speed increase a lot more than driving to your buddies LOL. Boot times are way faster and you do that every time you turn it on. It's just like going from a mechanical drive to a ssd for the first time. You were like "WOW, this is WAY better". Well getting a 950 Pro that is 5 times faster is just like that all over again. It's now WOW to NVMe over Sata3 ssd's. Everyone that I've had use my new laptop with the NVMe drive notices the speed and snappyness increase. I am a custom pc builder for lots of people in my area and I've had at least 25-30 people use the laptop for a bit over the past 1 month while they were over talking about upgrades and new builds. I like to have the newest tech to show them first hand how it will change things from what they have now. I don't just tell people things from what I've read off the internet from some bozo that doesn't know squat. I tell people things from me having my hands on stuff or me using things and knowing what happens from actually seeing it in person. I'm VERY HONEST with everyone I deal with and that's why people come back to me. I'm not out to rob people like most companies are, I'm here to help out and give people what they can't get else where or don't know where to look. Doing so has given me the ability to have my hands on a lot more stuff than most people and that's why I give more advise than others do too.

Yes it seems like the OP is interested in a good gpu, but he only mentioned playing on a 30" 2600p monitor, didn't go into details really saying it always has to be maxed out or anything, but knowing he has a monitor with that res, it's pretty easy to think one would want things maxed out or close too it. That's why I recommended the 6gig 970m for him. That would be the best choice for such a res on a 30".

Now for the budget part, OP picked almost the worst budget possible. It's right on the line of getting a great slower laptop, or trying to get a cheap laptop with the min 970m. $1100 will get you everything you could want in a laptop but with a 960m/965m. Or you could find a sale on a laptop that has nothing at all extra but just FINALLY comes with a 970m which is way more powerful than the 960m. Also now that gpu can come with 6 gigs of Vram which would suit the OP great for wanting to play some games on that insanely high res monitor he has. MSI has MXM gpus and right now they are making pretty much the best gaming laptops for the best price. Asus is not, Alienware is not, Dells are trying but not at that level unless it's Alienware and then costs way too much for the $1100 budget. Acer HELL NO, throttle issues in a thin laptop is not going to game on a 2600 res 30".

Knowing that Xotic PC has laptops to customize is why I looked at the barebones GT72 with a 6 gig 970m. To get that for $1163 is pretty dame good for what the OP is looking to do, well at least with what was said so far, but not in detail like crazy. That's why I say a budget of $1100 is a tough one. $1200 is way easier to find something for someone because there's a lot of 970m models that are now starting there pre tax, but if my budget was $1100 and then I seen that I could get a 970m with double the Vram which is 6 gigs of Vram in a gaming laptop, I'd find the extra $63 for that for sure. Who wouldn't, especially if you need every bit of the 6 gigs for a 2600 res monitor? Take that high res monitor out of the picture and then it's a new ball game.

No hard feelings but it seems you don't like to get people into new tech because of whatever reason. If you can get new tech and it works as it should, then there's only reason to be very happy in the end. This year Samsung and Intel and couple other hard drive manufactures are going to be making SSDs with 2.5 Terabytes to 10 Terabytes. There will be 3.5 Terabyte m.2 drives. With that much space on a drive, and the speeds of NVMe, we could easily see a m.2 NVMe drive come out this year that ends up being 5000mb/s read and write, or way faster than that. I'd hate to not be able to use one of those drives because I chose to not get a laptop that supports the tech. Not be wanting to buy another laptop 8 months later after spending $1100 on one this year already. Even the laptops that are having bios issues will be fixed eventually, we just don't know when. I see that the G752 has came out with 3 bios now since launch and might have fixed it on those ones. The Alienware 15 R2 that I had for a few weeks only was getting 300mb/s write speeds on the PM951 NVMe drive that came in it, but the 950 Pro had no issues getting the rated speeds and above which was 960mb/s Write and 2400mb/s Read on the 256gig model. Dell is just using cheaper NVMe drives in most and That's another reason I don't recommend getting a laptop that has one in it from the manufacture. Just get one that supports the drives, but go buy the drive you want to have after the fact and do a fresh OS install that takes 20 min now with a USB installer and with windows 10 you don't even need to enter the code. It's so easy now it's not worth using a bloatware filled OS at all. Every laptop that came home to me comes out of the box, gets flipped over and stock drive pulled out before I hit the power button for the first time. Put a 2.5" ssd in that I have lots laying around or put a new one in that I bought for it.

Anyways it's late here, gotta crash for work tomorrow, but OP should definitely consider the 6 gig 970m for $1163 since that's very close to budget. It would suit him well for anything on the laptop, and pretty well on the 30".
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post #16 of 33
Run an IO profiler on your OS and let us know what your actually using. When it comes to games it literally has no benefit over someone else as just about any game is not going to promote that behavior. Your still going to have a timer, or have to wait for everyone else to finish loading. Raid 0 only compounds how useless it is as even Sata3 its still not needed, while adding larger potential for disk failure. Please see here.

No hard feelings but the needs of the OP come first. When someone makes a thread like this they are looking for advice and your simply praising your own hardware more often than not. Its not always about the latest and greatest, but what makes sense under the budget presented.

While the barebones option is easier on the upfront cost, it has no OS. Unless he already has a key, he will have to purchase an OS which will push further beyond budget, which is why I didnt present the option initially. But it does sound like he may have a key for that since he plans to go with Win10 Pro?
Edited by TheReciever - 2/10/16 at 11:02pm
    
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post #17 of 33
Thread Starter 
I'll be making a decision this weekend.

I appreciate all the help, and I am glad to have some folks more knowledgeable than me to offer insight.

For the record, I do care about storage speed, I just wasn't on here to step in and say it.

Whatever I get, I'll be upgrading the storage drive to a SSD, at least 512GB in size, and I definitely want an NVMe OS drive, so I'm not behind the curve in 6-8 months.




Thanks - T
post #18 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrasher1016 View Post

I'll be making a decision this weekend.

I appreciate all the help, and I am glad to have some folks more knowledgeable than me to offer insight.

For the record, I do care about storage speed, I just wasn't on here to step in and say it.

Whatever I get, I'll be upgrading the storage drive to a SSD, at least 512GB in size, and I definitely want an NVMe OS drive, so I'm not behind the curve in 6-8 months.




Thanks - T

Good call bud. I didn't have anything to back that up on, but I highly recommend everyone spending as much as you are to get NVMe support in a $1000+ laptop now. You never know what the future holds and what the manufactures may do. Those drives might be what they are focusing on and the end up being 1/4 of the price of the sata3 ssd's once things get rolling with the 3D-Nand flash that they are all making now. Samsung isn't going to have the new drives come out with 3D-Nand flash and charge $2000 for them. They are going to need to recover the costs of R&D that it took for them to create them. I'm very anxious to see what the prices are when they finally release the drives they have been talking about that we'll be seeing 3.5 Terabyte m.2 drives, or 10 Terabyte 2.5" drives. That's a crazy jump in storage size and they have to place them into the market in a good price range or they will never get any money from them.

I'd be very happy with having a 1-2 Terabyte OS / Game drive that's m.2, and then having a 5-10 Terabyte SSD Storage drive all in a powerful laptop. That would get rid of all extra drives I have laying around with music, or movies, and whatnot.

I know your budget was $1100, and you did say not anymore than that, but seeing what you have as far as that insane high res 30" monitor, being able to get a new laptop with a 6gig Vram 970m for $63 more is something you might want to consider. I wish I had the 6gig 970m in my laptop especially since I use a 12gig Titan X in my gaming rig at home and I'm pretty use to being able to max all settings out and whatever I want and not have to worry about Vram being a issue. I figured since my laptop was only 1080p that 3 gigs would have been plenty for any games I was going to play, but that's not the case with these new titles coming out. I'm pretty blown away that Rise of the Tomb Raider is using almost 7gigs of Vram and that's at 1080p res, and over 8gigs once at 4K res.

Nice thing is that my gpu is a MXM style and I will be able to upgrade to a 16gig Pascal or whatever comes out in a year or so. They have said that the new GPU's can have up to 32gigs of Vram on a single card. Seeing that the 980m comes in a 8gig version, I can see a 16gig Pascal for sure biggrin.gif and I want one lol.
Edited by Hambone07si - 2/11/16 at 7:20am
Red X9
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
4790K @ 5ghz 1.350v 75c max load temps Asus Maximus VI Formula Evga Gtx Titan X @ 1500mhz / 7800mhz +112mv EK Acetal / Nickel / Nickel back plate 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Vengence Pro 32gig 2400mhz c11 red (4x8... 6x 256gig (1.5tb) in Raid 0 , OS / Gaming Drive 2 x Liteon 256gig (512gig) storage drives Asus Dvd-RW 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
2x 360mm Alphacool XT45 / 1x 480mm Alphacool Mo... EK X-Res 140 D5 vario Pump/Res combo + EK X-top... EK Supreme HF cpu / EK Acetal / Nickel with Nic... Windows 8.1 64bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift 27" 144hz with G-Sync Samsung 65" 7150  Logitech G510s Corsair AX1200 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Thermaltake Core X9 custom painted Red and Black Logitech G602 Wireless Corsair Aluminum Core 2 sided  Bose Companion 5 
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Red X9
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
4790K @ 5ghz 1.350v 75c max load temps Asus Maximus VI Formula Evga Gtx Titan X @ 1500mhz / 7800mhz +112mv EK Acetal / Nickel / Nickel back plate 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Corsair Vengence Pro 32gig 2400mhz c11 red (4x8... 6x 256gig (1.5tb) in Raid 0 , OS / Gaming Drive 2 x Liteon 256gig (512gig) storage drives Asus Dvd-RW 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
2x 360mm Alphacool XT45 / 1x 480mm Alphacool Mo... EK X-Res 140 D5 vario Pump/Res combo + EK X-top... EK Supreme HF cpu / EK Acetal / Nickel with Nic... Windows 8.1 64bit 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift 27" 144hz with G-Sync Samsung 65" 7150  Logitech G510s Corsair AX1200 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Thermaltake Core X9 custom painted Red and Black Logitech G602 Wireless Corsair Aluminum Core 2 sided  Bose Companion 5 
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post #19 of 33
An IO profiler would be quite informative. Care to share?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2670 @ 2.8Ghz m4600 m5100 @ 1100c/1500m 16GB DDR3 1333Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
c300 128GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB 5400rpm 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
750GB 5400rpm Windows 10 x64  1920x1080 @90hz 150w 
Mouse
Corsair M40 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2670 @ 2.8Ghz m4600 m5100 @ 1100c/1500m 16GB DDR3 1333Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
c300 128GB SSD 2TB FireCuda 7mm 2TB Firecuda 7mm 1TB 5400rpm 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
750GB 5400rpm Windows 10 x64  1920x1080 @90hz 150w 
Mouse
Corsair M40 
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post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
OK THEN:

Found a build-out on a Fangbook SX6, custom-built to the way I want it, minus the memory being 8GB instead of 16GB, and it's $1228.

I'm pretty sure that's the lowest I'm going to get these specs at.

Only downside is the 4GB VRAM, but I'm still looking...





Thanks - T
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