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[Guardian] The government just admitted it will use smart home devices for spying

4K views 79 replies 47 participants last post by  RX7-2nr 
#1 ·
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As the Guardian reported, Clapper made clear that the internet of things - the many devices like thermostats, cameras and other appliances that are increasingly connected to the internet - are providing ample opportunity for intelligence agencies to spy on targets, and possibly the masses. And it's a danger that many consumers who buy these products may be wholly unaware of.

"In the future, intelligence services might use the [internet of things] for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials," Clapper told a Senate panel as part of his annual "assessment of threats" against the US.
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But the potential for these privacy violations has only recently started reaching millions of homes: Samsung sparked controversy last year after announcing a television that would listen to everything said in the room it's in and in the fine print literally warned people not to talk about sensitive information in front of it.
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While Samsung took a bunch of heat, a wide array of devices now act as all-seeing or all-listening devices, including other television models, Xbox Kinect, Amazon Echo and GM's OnStar program that tracks car owners' driving patterns. Even a new Barbie has the ability to spy on you - it listens to Barbie owners to respond but also sends what it hears back to the mothership at Mattel.
Source.
 
#4 ·
I'm assuming these devices have to first be connected via WiFi correct? Do they come with scripts that crack WPA2 access points and brute-force their way into peoples networks? lol

Semi-serious question... Just wondering how all that works without the user's interaction.
 
#7 ·
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Originally Posted by xentrox View Post

I'm assuming these devices have to first be connected via WiFi correct? Do they come with scripts that crack WPA2 access points and brute-force their way into peoples networks? lol

Semi-serious question... Just wondering how all that works without the user's interaction.
Most of these home systems have a port opened to the main device so the user can check to see if his garage door is closed while he is at work. So, that gives them a way into your network. You have things like Amazon whatever where it listens and if you say its name it will do a search for you. You just need to intercept the packets being sent to that IP... very easy.
 
#8 ·
Skynet
 
#10 ·
Why would they want to watch me through my refrigerator when they can keep watching me through my phone like they have been for years?

I don't understand... obviously they CAN do anything, but let's be real now.. They've already had everything they've needed for many years now. Just because my stove has wifi and can tell me when my chemically filled gmo veggies and radioactive pacific fish TV dinner is done baking doesn't mean they're going to use it to spy on me! They're going to keep using phones... like they have been...
 
#12 ·
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Originally Posted by Mrzev View Post

Most of these home systems have a port opened to the main device so the user can check to see if his garage door is closed while he is at work. So, that gives them a way into your network. You have things like Amazon whatever where it listens and if you say its name it will do a search for you. You just need to intercept the packets being sent to that IP... very easy.
I see, so the assumption is there needs to be a device that is already connected and open so that they can get to the network through it.

I'm baffled by the people who use Amazon Echo though, a device that practically listens in on every single conversation you have in your house. I guess some people are too trusting or just oblivious to what's going on.
 
#13 ·
Isn't the real problem not that the government is going to backdoor (though they likely will as a backup) into these devices but rather that the companies that own them are IIRC forced to give data to the government that they receive from these devices?

And for anyone saying the whole "well we have it with phones" line; the whole point is that this is not only redundancy on what they can siphon from your phone but also a way to better verify the data and increase the inconvenience/difficulty factor of preventing any collection. IE, say someone knows enough to limit the only data that can be collected from their phone to contacts, duration of calls, and tower locations; the government and companies don't like that because it doesn't give them enough information whether to spy on you "for security reasons" or to gain more information they can sell. Now, throw in a fridge, oven, microwave, tv, and so on with their own settings, backdoors, and so on and suddenly its at least double the effort to plug and control the information being siphoned from you. Plus, figuring out where your phone spends its nights while talking to the fridge equals knowledge of your home location.

On the flip side, would we be able to sue for access to this info because I can imagine it could be useful for all kinds of legal defense.
 
#15 ·
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Originally Posted by KRAAG View Post

Not surprised about this.

What would surprise me is if people actually did something about it, instead of supporting/justifying it.
Well what can we do when it comes to privacy vs safety? Don't get me wrong I like my privacy and have black tape covering every phone / tablet / computer camera, but I'm also not naive enough to believe we get to hear about all the attacks that mass surveillance stops. Look at Obama, surely he's the type of liberal who would want to end all this privacy invasion, right? I'm sure that he is, but one of the first things that happens when elected, is you get taken to a room where you're briefed on all the evil people in the world (that civilians don't get to know about) and what their plans on. The idealism (another word of this is delusional) stops pretty quickly.
 
#17 ·
I'm aware that the general rule of the world, is that people in power are where they are for a reason - and it's likely greed, etc.

But, how can people in US even sleep soundly, knowing the crazy-ass stuff that their government get's up to. You can bet that the stuff that leaks is about 1% of it.

There's a reason why Americans are seen in a certain (negative) light throughout the world, and it's not because of its citizens. It's because of its government.
 
#18 ·
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Originally Posted by Asmodean View Post

I'm aware that the general rule of the world, is that people in power are where they are for a reason - and it's likely greed, etc.

But, how can people in US even sleep soundly, knowing the crazy-ass stuff that their government get's up to. You can bet that the stuff that leaks is about 1% of it.

There's a reason why Americans are seen in a certain (negative) light throughout the world, and it's not because of its citizens. It's because of its government.
Its not just America but yes it is the citizens fault, you choose or get chosen. IOT devices will create a technological class divide between those who know how to protect themselves and those who cannot either know or care.

Admit if your capable enough even here as a 'techy' to setup PGP email (as one example) or manage vlans,firewalls and ports in the home (as another example ) what about some traffic monitoring ? Thought not, most here probably know how to raise a multiplier or two and get some mean kill streaks on battlefield though. Just as with the IOT devices industry there will be a market for IOT-without devices and there's probably a lot of money to be had here because proper security experience and knowledge is a high bar of entry for almost everyone.
 
#20 ·
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Originally Posted by Pip Boy View Post

Its not just America but yes it is the citizens fault, you choose or get chosen. IOT Spying will create a technological class divide between those who know how to protect themselves and those who cannot either know or care.
Do you think it's for your protection?. Brainwashing at its finest.

Also, who do you think they use as guinea pigs, for all of these 'advancements'. Before they're made to go external, outside of the country...
 
#23 ·
How would you know the difference between IOT refrigerator and non-IOT refrigerator? You might already have one and not know it. It would have to be able to penetrate your network, but how hard would that be?
 
#25 ·
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Originally Posted by Asmodean View Post

Apparently, there is none.

Sorry, I forgot none of this applies to you. Seeing as you're living in space an' all.
Re-read my post. All im saying is that unless laws change ( they will and there will be fanfare but they wont be enforced at the level we are talking about ) and technology becomes more secure ( it will periodically and then become vulnerable over time ) Then the people who have no knowledge but consume (evangelize) these devices are going to be sitting ducks ( or sheep if you prefer ).
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip Boy View Post

Re-read my post. All im saying is that unless laws change ( they will and there will be fanfare but they wont be enforced at the level we are talking about ) and technology becomes more secure ( it will periodically and then become vulnerable over time ) Then the people who have no knowledge but consume (evangelize) these devices are going to be sitting ducks ( or sheep if you prefer ).
Honestly - I read your initial statement as, you were speaking in terms of countries, rather than individuals. My bad. I misinterpreted your meaning.
 
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