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[Guardian] The government just admitted it will use smart home devices for spying - Page 5

post #41 of 80
1980 here we come...
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post #42 of 80
Well they can already spy on you and make a good profile of what you are doing, simply having a google account would most likely be enough to bring out some of your darkest secrets. I'm pretty sure all of us can agree that if other people could see our entire google search history, we would be looked at much differently! With the IOT, the profile made of us will be much more in depth and personal. Eating habits, when you wake up, what you watch and when, on and on and on and....
post #43 of 80
Don't buy the products. It's pretty simple.
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post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpenguinxx View Post

Don't buy the products. It's pretty simple.

Its not though. Going to have to don the ol'foil hat here.. but unless their success is universally slammed down due to consumer concerns your going to struggle to have the choice of not having one in 10 years. Think about that. Your telling me your not going to have a toaster or a fridge ? of course not and your telling me the general tech-illiterate public will even care. Only continual hacks and outages, articles in the press will relay their true potential for what they can do but even then your dealing with a lot of completely ignorant people.

Mandatory surveillance in the home through soft sell, just like smart phones only this time its going to be harder to switch them off. Your best bet is to learn about security and networking and seal a good job in the process.
Edited by Pip Boy - 2/11/16 at 7:13am
post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip Boy View Post

Its not though. Going to have to don the ol'foil hat here.. but unless their success is universally slammed down due to consumer concerns your going to struggle to have the choice of not having one in 10 years. Think about that. Your telling me your not going to have a toaster or a fridge ? of course not and your telling me the general tech-illiterate public will even care. Only continual hacks and outages, articles in the press will relay their true potential for what they can do but even then your dealing with a lot of completely ignorant people.

Mandatory surveillance in the home through soft sell, just like smart phones only this time its going to be harder to switch them off. Your best bet is to learn about security and networking and seal a good job in the process.

Those wifi devices would have to be cheaper than the normal devices for most people to buy them. I don't see that happening.
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post #46 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpenguinxx View Post

Those wifi devices would have to be cheaper than the normal devices for most people to buy them. I don't see that happening.

The entirety of connectivity is hurtling towards Wi-Fi usage and support. Ignoring the spectrum availability concerns, cost won't be an issue on these devices. Wireless cards are CHEAP, literally can be manufactured for next to nothing. The most expensive aspect of getting an IoT device running is actually the software side. In terms of hardware, it would cost a fridge manufacturer a couple of dollars to get it online. The software to do run it, that requires a little more money.

Still, in the end, getting an appliance into a state that it could spy on the user is VERY simple.

EDIT:

Oh, and they don't even need to compromise your wireless network to do it. They can easily "phone home" through the Cellular Networks, as well as any neighboring goober that has an open connection on their wireless network.
    
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post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


Oh, and they don't even need to compromise your wireless network to do it. They can easily "phone home" through the Cellular Networks, as well as any neighboring goober that has an open connection on their wireless network.

Exactly.

Cheap as chips to make, they will have rubbish security support as even Uber big corporations have failed spectacularly in the past how do you expect some small eastern European white goods manufacturer to manage an ongoing 24/7 security landscape over millions of connected devices generation after generation redface.gif

And then there was the article a while ago about the new Intel cpus' with embedded wifi / GPS capability. Basically the choices in 10 - 20years from now will range from standard economy surveillance to luxury surveillance.
post #48 of 80
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On the one hand it was pretty obvious that they were going to do it, it's there, it's actually their job to go for it, so admitting to it in the current climate where even the public authorities that check on them are much more inquisitive was the obvious thing to do.

He does go on to paint a bleak picture for the future though, in more general terms:


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/02/us-intelligence-chief-says-iot-climate-change-add-to-global-instability/
Quote:
"Smart devices incorporated into the electric grid, vehicles—including autonomous vehicles—and household appliances are improving efficiency, energy conservation, and convenience. However, security industry analysts have demonstrated that many of these new systems can threaten data privacy, data integrity, or continuity of services. In the future, intelligence services might use the loT for identification, surveillance, monitoring, location tracking, and targeting for recruitment, or to gain access to networks or user credentials," Clapper said (PDF), according to his prepared testimony before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

During his live appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Clapper testified that "unpredictable instabilities have become the new normal and this trend will continue for the unforeseeable future." He said that infectious diseases like Zika, government instability, and the 60 million displaced people across the globe are adding to the world's instability. But there's more. "Extreme weather, climate change, environmental degradation, rising demand for food and water, poor policy decisions and inadequate infrastructure will magnify this instability," he said.

But "technological innovation," he added, "will have an even more significant impact on our way of life.

"This innovation is central to our economic prosperity but it will bring new security vulnerabilities. The Internet of Things will connect tens of billions of new physical devices that could be exploited. Artificial intelligence will enable computers to make autonomous decisions about data and physical systems, and potentially disrupt labor markets," Clapper told the Armed Services Committee.



On the other hand there's another side to the equation that needs action from both other branches of government and companies to come to their senses to stop some of this madness.

When a company like Samsung is forced to append this to some of their TVs product manual:




I have to ask where does it stop? TVs are used in the most prominent places in the house where you have family / private / intimate conversations. When do the guys running a company come to their senses and ask themselves "Why are we even implementing this in the first place if it comes with potential grave consequences to people's privacy in the places where they expect it the most?".

And then there are companies that sell kids' toys that are even worse.

The latest on the news (from today):

http://www.techspot.com/news/63785-vtech-new-tc-warns-customers-wont-held-responsible.html

Quote:
Last November, it was reported that children’s toy maker VTech had its Learning Lodge app store database hacked. The breach saw data that included names, e-mail addresses, passwords, mailing addresses and IP addresses being compromised. The attacker also downloaded a large number of photos and chat logs, many involving children.

Now, more than two months after the attack, VTech has relaunched its online app store with some upgraded security features. But cybersecurity experts are condemning the site’s updated terms and conditions that absolve the company of any responsibility should another hack take place.


I sure hope that authorities step in. You can't just have a company wave any responsibility, even in cases of gross negligence.

Why are these toys even allowed to hit the market in the first place? And I don't see any public campaign alerting parents to the dangers of these. Isn't that a recurrent concern of public authorities, at least in the public speech? I'd expect some concrete action. At the very least the imposition of a big warning sticker on the box alerting parents to the risks and that the company assumes no responsibility. I'd like to see how well they'd sell after that.

We really need to get out of the era where the latest and greatest consumer electronics products are seen as something marvellous that can do no wrong as soon as possible and enter the era where they are regarded as just another product / appliance and be judged for what they are.
Edited by tpi2007 - 2/11/16 at 9:20am
 
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post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenty View Post

and this was a conspiracy at one time . thumb.gif Go back to sleep sheep.

It's funny (scary) how many times the "tin-foil hat" people are the ones that are right and see things for what they are (and for that get insulted by others).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

The entirety of connectivity is hurtling towards Wi-Fi usage and support. Ignoring the spectrum availability concerns, cost won't be an issue on these devices. Wireless cards are CHEAP, literally can be manufactured for next to nothing. The most expensive aspect of getting an IoT device running is actually the software side. In terms of hardware, it would cost a fridge manufacturer a couple of dollars to get it online. The software to do run it, that requires a little more money.

Still, in the end, getting an appliance into a state that it could spy on the user is VERY simple.

EDIT:

Oh, and they don't even need to compromise your wireless network to do it. They can easily "phone home" through the Cellular Networks, as well as any neighboring goober that has an open connection on their wireless network.

Yipes, I never even thought of that, we might not even be able to block them locally from phoning home if they can get around using our home network. Scary.



Tpi2007 - Just want you to know that I'm hitting a virtual rep button almost every time you post. Spot on.
post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I have to ask where does it stop? TVs are used in the most prominent places in the house where you have family / private / intimate conversations. When do the guys running a company come to their senses and ask themselves "Why are we even implementing this in the first place if it comes with potential grave consequences to people's privacy in the places where they expect it the most?".

Unfortunately if you want a probable answer it goes down the rabbit hole and gets your called out as a tinfoiler or conspiracy nut. They know exactly what they are doing and so do the powers that be. Remember these companies are global too, they put it on a disclaimer so they do know how it works after all..

. As i posted numerous times its better to be informed on this rather than ignorant, there should at least be a lot of job openings for security advisors soon and its a good thing to train up in rather than the normal desktop / server / web development job roles. Might as well get on the gravy train as desktop and local server jobs dried up because its a thing and its coming stupidly bad or not.


Quote:
We really need to get out of the era where the latest and greatest consumer electronics products are seen as something marvellous that can do no wrong as soon as possible and enter the era where they are regarded as just another product / appliance and be judged for what they are

Try telling all drooling tech evangelist youtubers. To them its a new religion. It gets bundled with Science & space travel but it isn't science, its technology (yes uses science research but its not the study of ) But there are so many other fields of science other than whats featured and patented in a new smart phone that are far more interesting and nuanced. A lot of it is just mindless consumerism.
Edited by Pip Boy - 2/11/16 at 9:40am
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