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[WCCF] HITMAN To Feature Best Implementation Of DX12 Async Compute Yet, Says AMD - Page 11

post #101 of 799
I hope Async becomes a standard for both AMD and Nvidia if it brings great improvements on both sides as it may lift the single core hogging CPU bottlenecks, as seen in various DX11 games.
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post #102 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyW View Post

I hope Async becomes a standard for both AMD and Nvidia if it brings great improvements on both sides as it may lift the single core hogging CPU bottlenecks, as seen in various DX11 games.
It cannot be if the rumours are true and Nvidia has to launch Volta in order for that to happen.
I hate to be blunt, but those gpus everyone thought were new are not more up to date than GCN.
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post #103 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post

Equating Gameworks and Physx to Asynchronous Compute is ridiculous.. But call it valid if you wish.

That's not really what he's doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaSceptre View Post

His first statement of this thread: "I find it interesting that people can spend hours decrying Nvidia and their GameWorks and TWIMTBP campaign, but AMD does their version, and everyone gets excited. They are both closed systems....if one is fine, so is the other." sad-smiley-002.gif That's playing a victim, and deflecting the topic away from Async towards Nvidia fanboys being hard done by.. Being red or green doesn't matter, they're all damn annoying.

Is that really how you interpreted his statement? That all he was getting at is Nvidia fanboys are hard done by?

You know what....? Nevermind, I concede... you guys win. thumb.gif
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post #104 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

It cannot be if the rumours are true and Nvidia has to launch Volta in order for that to happen.
I hate to be blunt, but those gpus everyone thought were new are not more up to date than GCN.

Indeed. nVidia is so good at manipulating their fanbase... You're actually better off for DX12 with GCN 1.1 from 2013 than Maxwell 2 from 2015. Arguably you're even better off with GCN 1.0 from 2011 rather than Maxwell 2... Depending on what you prioritize.

nVidia has admitted that their preemption is still a long way off from improving, so don't count on Pascal being much better. It's likely a Maxwell 2 node shrink with some minor tweaks. The true async capabilities from nVidia's side won't likely arrive until Volta. By that time, AMD's GCN has likely evolved quite a bit more. People don't know it, but it's nVidia that's currently playing catch-up in terms of architecture. People only go for nVidia because they either like upgrading every 1 or 2 years, or because of ignorance.
Edited by NightAntilli - 2/11/16 at 10:48am
post #105 of 799
So nvidia fanboys want to convince normal users that async shaders are black boxed just like gameworks, ...physx.

I alway though that nvidia cannot run async because hardware doesnt support it and AMD GPU cant run phsyx, because software doesnt allow it.
And also phsyx and async shaders are very different things, I am right?
post #106 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by degenn View Post

That's not really what he's doing.
Is that really how you interpreted his statement? That all he was getting at is Nvidia fanboys are hard done by?

You know what....? Nevermind, I concede... you guys win. thumb.gif

No worries, it has been this way here for years. Extreme and blind bias towards a vendor is nothing new, at least not in the 20+ years I have been doing this crap. I find it entertaining that I can quote AMD themselves, literally put it right in the forum. Yet they get turned into my words, and it is OK for AMD to say them..."because".

We, as a community, literally have AMD making false claims, or rather outright lying again, about ASC. They are pushing it as their "unique" and "exclusive" feature, when that isn't even true. Hell, even everyone in here is in agreement with ASC not being exclusive to them.

Yet people want to get mad at me for pointing out what they agree on? Interesting.

If AMD wants to play the "unique" feature card, then they get to play that card and must deal with the standards that come with it. If they can have a unique feature, so can Nvidia - regardless of how it is being done. If having a unique feature is OK for one, then it must be for the other.

After all, I am not the one claiming uniqueness here, it is AMD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

So nvidia fanboys want to convince normal users that async shaders are black boxed just like gameworks, ...physx.

I alway though that nvidia cannot run async because hardware doesnt support it and AMD GPU cant run phsyx, because software doesnt allow it.
And also phsyx and async shaders are very different things, I am right?

If you actually read a damn thing, you would have known what you think is happening, isn't. No one said anything about Nvidia being black boxed.

Try and keep up, it is only a few paragraphs you need to read and comprehend.

EDIT:

Simplified and brief (consumer) history on compute.....

Years ago Nvidia was compute heavy, and AMD wasn't. Then the world/usage/market shifted, Nvidia went away from compute. Around this time AMD went into compute with their hardware. Think back to the AMD mining days. Now, in the time that Nvidia went away, they also (through various events) gained a massive marketshare, now North of 80%.

Enter DX 12, and compute. We still currently don't know what roll it is going to play in the consumer space, it is all speculation. However, as it sits right now...

  • Nvidia hardware doesn't have the hardware for ASC support, and thus is being emulated via drivers.
  • AMD has boat loads of support for it.
  • Who knows about Pascal.


We could easily see a period, if DX 12 and ASC really took off, where AMD is the dominate performer in scenarios that use it. Until Volta from Nvidia comes along. Why? Well, it could be possible that Pascal was too far into development to turn around to focus back on supporting ASC.

Now, let's say Pascal just sucks at it. The new question becomes "Will developers spend the resources to develop for a feature ~20% of users can use?" Even if it is "better", will they sink that resource in the face of the 80%?

Only the developers can answer that. If it is difficult and costly to have in their product, and only 20% of the user base supports it, they won't do it. If it is easily understood and implemented, it could be part of the push to get AMD/RTG off the ground again.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 2/11/16 at 11:16am
    
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post #107 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post

Indeed. nVidia is so good at manipulating their fanbase... You're actually better off for DX12 with GCN 1.1 from 2013 than Maxwell 2 from 2015. Arguably you're even better off with GCN 1.0 from 2011 rather than Maxwell 2... Depending on what you prioritize.

nVidia has admitted that their preemption is still a long way off from improving, so don't count on Pascal being much better. It's likely a Maxwell 2 node shrink with some minor tweaks. The true async capabilities from nVidia's side won't likely arrive until Volta. By that time, AMD's GCN has likely evolved quite a bit more. People don't know it, but it's nVidia that's currently playing catch-up in terms of architecture. People only go for nVidia because they either like upgrading every 1 or 2 years, or because of ignorance.

Well to be fair, for most of us it wont matter. GCN may be better than Maxwell on some DX12 stuff but by time we're actually using it We're going to have 14/16nm cards. I'm guessing that AMD and Nvidia with have identical feature sets for DX12/Vulcan and then we can just get back to buying whatever card is the fastest.
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post #108 of 799
Nice forum.
post #109 of 799
Who cares about this game anyway.

I will try Hitman: Blood Money. I heard it was the best game out of all of them with many choices available to complete your objectives.

As for this triple AAA game that will be "episodic", no thanks.
 
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post #110 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

So nvidia fanboys want to convince normal users that async shaders are black boxed just like gameworks, ...physx.

I alway though that nvidia cannot run async because hardware doesnt support it and AMD GPU cant run phsyx, because software doesnt allow it.
And also phsyx and async shaders are very different things, I am right?
Basically, this is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenFaux View Post

Well to be fair, for most of us it wont matter. GCN may be better than Maxwell on some DX12 stuff but by time we're actually using it We're going to have 14/16nm cards. I'm guessing that AMD and Nvidia with have identical feature sets for DX12/Vulcan and then we can just get back to buying whatever card is the fastest.
Indeed. But for people upgrading since last year, having gone with AMD would've been the better choice as a long term investment. But obviously, the most bought card was the GTX 970, rather than the R9 390. nVidia convinced the public that its new cards are fully DX12, and even DX12.1 compliant. Anyone who did their homework knew this wasn't the case however.

Right now is one of the worst times to upgrade since the 16/14nm FinFET process is indeed just around the corner. But GCN is still a better choice. We might have 14/16nm cards by that time, but you might not have to upgrade to such a card at all for a couple of years if you go with GCN. And yet, everyone wants nVidia, mainly due to the power consumption and nVidia's reputation. The money saved by not having to upgrade again is a lot more than the money saved because of a more power efficient card.
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