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[WCCF] HITMAN To Feature Best Implementation Of DX12 Async Compute Yet, Says AMD - Page 12

post #111 of 799
If we really wanted to make an accurate analogy, it would be akin to (over)tessellating games because the geometry engines in AMD hardware have pitiful tessellation performance. I really don't see how ASC is comparable to Gameworks at all.

As for Gaming Evolved source code not being open, well nVidia worked with CD to change the final game code in Tomb Raider to fix TressFX issues on nVidia GPUs, so I'm not entirely sure about that.
post #112 of 799
I think the heart of the problem lies in the interaction of users with the performance ratings in games. Reviewers like Digital Foundry completely miss the point of "better utilization" and assign newer titles with higher performance in the same category as the old ones which are destined to be retired. Letting newer titles be withdrawn from the exposure in their video reviews just in time as they launch while single threaded performance hogs continue their overly sensationalized journey onward with superlatives such as "takes every resource you throw at it" & "no limit to its performance demand" rather encouraging the worse conduct.
Edited by mtcn77 - 2/11/16 at 11:19am
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post #113 of 799
Until recently I was not really hyped much about ASync. Recently Rise of the Tomb on Xbox shows that Async makes huge difference. Trying to achive same effects it cost PC hardware stronger hardware doing it the traditional way. Rise of Tomb Raider would have been another TR 2013 game which run very well had it been DX12. Thank Nvidia for this.
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post #114 of 799
So its not OK to work with game developer partners to get games to run better on your hardware (Nvidia, GameWorks) but when it benefit you (AMD, Async Compute), its OK to have the partners code the game to work better on your hardware.

The double standard here... rolleyes.gif
post #115 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by degenn View Post

He hasn't played any victim card at all. He is merely bringing up valid points and being gang-attacked for doing it.

Get off his nuts.

Sorry... not valid points. Just because AMD is taking advantage of an open DX12 feature and Nvidia cannot doesn't mean what AMD is doing is anything like Nvidia. AMD is basically marketing a feature that Nvidia has full access to and should be able to take full advantage of when Pascal drops. Nvidia on the other hand has a lock down on Physx and AMD can't ever use the feature unless Nvidia gives them rights to do so. Not even the same thing. Not even in the same ballpark!
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post #116 of 799
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Actually, AMD has all the leverage at the moment in that aspect since it's AMD stuff in consoles. Game devs can get lazy, in case you didn't notice, and may use a ton of A-sync for their game because, consoles, then just port it to PC. If most devs use A-sync because of consoles then there is nothing Nvidia can do but give in or fall way behind.

You just echoed everything what I was telling people last year with all of this. Nvidia made a colossal mistake by letting AMD control the consoles market. First AMD gave the consoles X86 so we get all of the 3rd party game now, then they gave Mantle over to the Khronus Group so they can come out with Vulkan and make game development "standardized".

Once standardized, developers would do all of the optimizations for the PC that they do for the consoles, e.g. Async Compute.

Traditionally speaking, AMD always had more Floating point operations than Nvidia and more cores than Nvidia so now with Async Compute being heavily implemented, Nvidia will get destroyed.

They only have themselves to blame.

Watch Nvidia's 80% market share vanish into thin air.....poof.
post #117 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

So its not OK to work with game developer partners to get games to run better on your hardware (Nvidia, GameWorks) but when it benefit you (AMD, Async Compute), its OK to have the partners code the game to work better on your hardware.

The double standard here... rolleyes.gif
@Italic;
No that's not how it is. It's fine to work with game developers to get games to run better on your hardware. It's not fine to work with game developers to lock out the competition from optimizing effects used in the game. GameWorks uses tessellation, which is a feature that AMD cards also have and actually ATi came up with, but are not allowed to optimize for. No one is refraining nVidia from coding for Async compute. Their hardware does not have the capability, and that is something else. You would have a point is AMD cards couldn't do tessellation, but since they can, your point is moot.
post #118 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Many, a lot, of developers wouldn't survive without the PC market to support their Console market.

You need to consider that Nvidia still completely controls the PC market with their products. If software developers suddenly abandoned that, they would quickly starve and go out of business. The PC gaming market is a huge market for developers, they can't dump it.

Is it unfortunate Nvidia has gotten that big? Yes, it is, as it makes it very difficult for AMD to gain ground in it. However, it is possible they will do it, but it is going to take time.

That's very true, but it's not as if Nvidia gpu's can't emulate A-sync, you can still play the beta of AoS with an Nvidia GPU, it just doesn't run as well (or so it seems, I haven't played it). All that would mean is that the coveted benchmarks for some games would lean more in favor of AMD.

Simply put, it wouldn't be cost effective for Nvidia to try and block it. The cost in paying off devs to make sure they don't use A-sync combined with the sales loss from those benchmark numbers that favor AMD with devs who opt to use A-sync despite Nvidia's strong arming would cost a lot more than simply incorporating proper A-sync into their next architecture, be that Pascal or Volta.

That's the way I see it anyway, maybe I'm missing some details as I'm not involved in the industry, but it seems like the cost vs benefit analysis from my position of armchair QB would seem to tell me giving in and building it into future gpus is the best option.
post #119 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

So its not OK to work with game developer partners to get games to run better on your hardware (Nvidia, GameWorks) but when it benefit you (AMD, Async Compute), its OK to have the partners code the game to work better on your hardware.

The double standard here... rolleyes.gif

Not sure what Nvidia is doing with Gameworks and what AMD is doing with ASC is the same thing. I really don't see it as a double standard at all and I have been on the green team for awhile now. Beats me on how some of you think it is even comparable. headscratch.gif

Last time I checked Microsoft (not AMD) was responsible for DX12. Nvidia on the other hand is responsible for Gameworks.
Edited by criminal - 2/11/16 at 12:50pm
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post #120 of 799
One thing is for sure: AMD has full support of Directx 12 features and Nvidia has none. Point being,
  1. (Limitless) Resource Binding Tier 3,
  2. Context Switching,
  3. Asynchronous Shaders are the vaunted features missing from Nvidia hardware.
I think it will be better than Evolved, this time with Hitman.rolleyes.gif
Those who don't know what I mean, read: "280X>970".
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