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[WCCF] HITMAN To Feature Best Implementation Of DX12 Async Compute Yet, Says AMD - Page 28

post #271 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

if GW is involved, then the dev, under the licensing agreement with NV , needs to get NV approval to change the GW code if needed.

What could ever go wrong, I can only imagine the politics behind such requests.

Jimmy Dev.: We need top Optimize this game for AMD's hardware, can we allow AMD to add their code pls?

Nvidia: BOLLOCKS! Jimmy, You can do it later after all benchmarks are out and the game have 1 week on the market

Jimmy: But...

Nvidia: BUT NOTHING JIMMY, after all I've done for you...

In all seriousness thought, as you say this is far from a perfect world, and I do can see how any reason can be used to negate such requests, especially when doing so benefits Nvidia.

AMD is literally at their Mercy.
Edited by Dargonplay - 2/12/16 at 3:54pm
post #272 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

What could ever go wrong, I can only imagine the politics behind such requests.
it is funny! (Click to show)
Jimmy Dev.: We need top Optimize this game for AMD's hardware, can we allow AMD to add their code pls?

Nvidia: BOLLOCKS! Jimmy, You can do it later after all benchmarks are out and the game have 1 week on the market

Jimmy: But...

Nvidia: BUT NOTHING JIMMY.

In all seriousness thought, as you say this is far from a perfect world, but I do can see how any reason can be used to negate such requests.

well, if happens regularly - i would think that a few devs would have stepped forward and said something. believe or not, there are a few ethical people in the world. but see here's the thing though, i haven't seen anyone who has released a steaming pile of GWs that hasn't already released steaming piles before.

hello ubisoft - but not that they are the only ones.

E:
catching up on your edit:

so nvidia has 80% market share. so?

the devs are making more money off of consoles. most of the time PCs are an after thought.
Edited by looniam - 2/12/16 at 4:01pm
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post #273 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

i would think that a few devs would have stepped forward and said something. believe or not, there are a few ethical people in the world.

A thick envelope should make sure that doesn't happen, you just think too highly of business men.
post #274 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

A thick envelope should make sure that doesn't happen, you just think too highly of business men.

like i said with devs making a lot more money with consoles, it would have to be a very, very thick envelope.

but i have to disagree - devs aren't businessmen, publishers are and they aren't near any code; just pushing to get it done - which leads to short cuts by the devs. wink.gif.
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post #275 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

like i said with devs making a lot more money with consoles, it would have to be a very, very thick envelope.

but i have to disagree - devs aren't businessmen, publishers are and they aren't near any code; just pushing to get it done - which leads to short cuts by the devs. wink.gif.
I concur. Developers are not businessmen. Otherwise, we wouldn't have Project Cars announcements for Nintendo being redacted, does not make any business sense. These guys act passionately about it.
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post #276 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

like i said with devs making a lot more money with consoles, it would have to be a very, very thick envelope.

but i have to disagree - devs aren't businessmen, publishers are and they aren't near any code; just pushing to get it done - which leads to short cuts by the devs. wink.gif.

Publishers aren't near code as in Publishers can't decide what happens to the game? Just watch the Bunjie/Activision Drama over destiny, it would make up for a good Sunday movie.

Big name publishers have absolute control over what happens with their games, given the ways they operate, would it be surprising that they make deals with Nvidia on the PC Market?

The only developers I would trust are Indie developers, and I don't see all Indie devs running towards Gameworks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

I concur. Developers are not businessmen. Otherwise, we wouldn't have Project Cars announcements for Nintendo being redacted, does not make any business sense. These guys act passionately about it.

You're talking about the same people who did this:

"No, in this case there is an entire thread in the Project Cars graphics subforum where we discussed with the software engineers directly about the problems with the game and AMD video cards. SMS knew for the past 3 years that Nvidia based PhysX effects in their game caused the frame rate to tank into the sub 20 fps region for AMD users. It is not something that occurred overnight or the past few months. It didn't creep in suddenly. It was always there from day one. Since the game uses GameWorks, then the ball is in Nvidia's court to optimize the code so that AMD cards can run it properly. Or wait for AMD to work around GameWorks within their drivers. Nvidia is banking on taking months to get right because of the code obfuscation in the GameWorks libraries as this is their new strategy to get more customers. Break the game for the competition's hardware and hope they migrate to them. If they leave the PC Gaming culture then it's fine; they weren't our customers in the first place."

Project Cars engine itself is built around a version of PhysX that simply does not work on amd cards, performance goes in the toilet if they do not have GPU physx turned on, The worst part? The developers knew this would murder performance on AMD cards, but built their entire engine off of a technology that simply does not work properly with AMD anyway.The game was built from the ground up to favor one hardware company over another.

You know, this actually reminds me to when Intel threatened OEMs with cutting of supply if they didn't stop selling AMD products, AMD won the Lawsuit after decades of Intel tanking on AMD, the damage was already done, Intel paid little over 1 Billion dollars to AMD. I just wish AMD would not stay on the defensive against companies like these who always resort to Anti-Competitive Schemes, if they somehow manage success and they wake up and start doing what Nvidia or intel was doing, boy, that's going to be a dark age for PC Gaming, and I wouldn't be able to blame AMD given the circumstances.

It'd be a world where the best components would not matter as much as the influence in the companies behind them.
Edited by Dargonplay - 2/12/16 at 5:08pm
post #277 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Publishers aren't near code as in Publishers can't decide what happens to the game? Just watch the Bunjie/Activision Drama over destiny, it would make up for a good Sunday movie.

Big name publishers have absolute control over what happens with their games, given the ways they operate, would it be surprising that they make deals with Nvidia?

The only developers I would trust are Indie developers, and I don't see all Indie devs running towards Gameworks.

real quick steam survey:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey


just very roughly throw out the intel and "other" - that leaves NV/AMD splitting the rest at a 2/1 margin.

thats still a BIG chunk (~30%) dev/publishers would be screwing over.

i'm sure that is far from perfect but i think you're not really giving AMD enough credit in the market - or more like too much for nvidia.
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post #278 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

real quick steam survey:
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey


just very roughly throw out the intel and "other" - that leaves NV/AMD splitting the rest at a 2/1 margin.

thats still a BIG chunk (~30%) dev/publishers would be screwing over.

i'm sure that is far from perfect but i think you're not really giving AMD enough credit in the market - or more like too much for nvidia.

Nvidia currently have 80% of total Marketshare.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/08/19/nvidia-increases-desktop-gpu-market-share-again-despite-multiple-amd-radeon-releases/#163f0aa5250e

They don't need to screw all games, just big titles, and not so much they'd leave clear what they're trying to do, just enough to make their offering look more compelling to the masses, sometimes it is painfully obvious what they're trying to do, when Gameworks first came out, and today, from CDProjectRED

"Many of you have asked us if AMD Radeon GPUs would be able to run NVIDIA’s HairWorks technology – the answer is yes! However, unsatisfactory performance may be experienced as the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD products."

Then Nvidia goes to say things like

"GameWorks improves the visual quality of games running on GeForce for our customers. It does not impair performance on competing hardware.
Demanding source code access to all our cool technology is an attempt to deflect their performance issues.


What makes matters worse is that Nvidia will insist on CDProjectRED or any developer using Gameworks to not use AMD Features, and if they do this is a Case by Case basis decision.

It doesn't matter if they have 20% or 90% of PC Marketshare, if AMD were the ones doing this I would stand against them as well, Gameworks is Middleware that should simply not exist.
Edited by Dargonplay - 2/12/16 at 6:32pm
post #279 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post


What makes matters worse is that Nvidia wont let CDProjectRED or any developer using Gameworks to use TressFX/PureHair nor any AMD Feature code.

It doesn't matter if they have 20% or 90% of PC Marketshare, if AMD were the ones doing this I would stand against them as well, Gameworks is Middleware that should simply not exist.

GTA V has some Gameworks features and some AMD sourced features as well. So it can and has been done.

Gameworks should not exist is nonsense as well. Some features like HBAO+ are really good and AMD has no trouble with it. Godrays are nice as well although I agree 110% with everybody that says low vs high settings bring almost no benefit except fps penalty. PhysX and Hairworks can go in the garbage though.

Here's hoping AMD's new software suite gets some use from developers without AMD needing to pour money into it.
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post #280 of 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post


Nvidia currently have 80% of total Marketshare.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/08/19/nvidia-increases-desktop-gpu-market-share-again-despite-multiple-amd-radeon-releases/#163f0aa5250e

They don't need to screw all games, just big titles, and not so much they'd leave clear what they're trying to do, just enough to make their offering look more compelling to the masses, sometimes it is painfully obvious what they're trying to do, when Gameworks first came out, and today, from CDProjectRED

"Many of you have asked us if AMD Radeon GPUs would be able to run NVIDIA’s HairWorks technology – the answer is yes! However, unsatisfactory performance may be experienced as the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD products. Radeon users are encouraged to disable NVIDIA HairWorks if the performance is below expectations."

Then Nvidia goes to say things like

"GameWorks improves the visual quality of games running on GeForce for our customers. It does not impair performance on competing hardware.
Demanding source code access to all our cool technology is an attempt to deflect their performance issues.


What makes matters worse is that Nvidia wont let CDProjectRED or any developer using Gameworks to use TressFX/PureHair nor any AMD Feature code.

It doesn't matter if they have 20% or 90% of PC Marketshare, if AMD were the ones doing this I would stand against them as well, Gameworks is Middleware that should simply not exist.
you know that forbes article is showing an nvidia slide, right?. and i am sure it represents sales including OEMs of little GT720 cards too, hardly gaming sales.

forget the PR war in the press, benchmark sites did NOT turn on hairworks! AMD placed what would be expected and reasonably compared to other games that didn't have any gameworks. the exact placement varied amound benches but the 780/970/290 all pplace with in a few fps of each other and the 290x/780ti/980 the same with the 980ti/titanx in the lead. (mind you furyx wasn't out yet.)

and what happen soon after? an AMD user found importing the exe to make a profile in CCP could then turn down the tessellation to x8 - which i might add made HW run better then kepler.

nothing to see here move along.

really this is a damn thread about hitman and a-sync compute. but now 50%+ of the post are about GWs! jesus! nvidia doesn't have to bury AMD the red team is are already doing it for them! mad.gif
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