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Dreammachine DM1 pro mouse review - Page 36

post #351 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

I so agree on that.

Well, as long as it's good enough and stable. Yes.
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post #352 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by exitone View Post

Good 3310 implementations have always been reported as better than Logitech's 3366 implementation. Logitech does everything themselves so there's a lot of tiny aspects of a mouse they can screw up and a lot of the time they don't care since it won't affect sales.

However specwise Logitech 3366 or 3360 is significantly better than 3310

This opinion was mainly spread by MaxKohler. Basically troll. The only factual basis was subjective feeling.
There is a difference between 3366 and 3310. 3310 has more 'pixel walk' while 3366 feels really accurate, literally pixel-perfect (not just a figure of speech). Also, afaik, 3366 has less/no smoothing algorithm so you don't feel that slight artificial enhancement of precision (for a lack of better explanation -> at least that's what the g303 felt like to me compared to any other 3310).

Also, 3366 feels a tad more responsive/raw for the above reason. Then, because of higher framerate, the cursor path appears smoother. On top of that, Logitech has optimized the polling rate insanely well, so it is far more stable than any other sensor/implementation so far - especially 1000 hz.

Note that this is my somewhat subjective experience and opinion, but many people have confirmed this.
Edited by ramraze - 2/28/16 at 12:12pm
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post #353 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramraze View Post

This opinion was mainly spread by MaxKohler. Basically troll. The only factual basis was subjective feeling.
There is a difference between 3366 and 3310. 3310 has more 'pixel walk' while 3366 feels really accurate, literally pixel-perfect (not just a figure of speech). Also, afaik, 3366 has less/no smoothing algorithm so you don't feel that slight artificial enhancement of precision (for a lack of better explanation -> at least that's what the g303 felt like to me compared to any other 3310).

Also, 3366 feels a tad more responsive/raw for the above reason.

Note that this is my somewhat subjective experience and opinion, but many people have confirmed this.

I don't really like the word "raw" as I don't know what it really means, but yeah the 3366 in the g303 feels more responsive than any other mouse I have tried. Admittedly I haven't tried a ton of mice for a long period of time, but honestly I feel my immediate opinions on responsiveness may be the most accurate because I can kind of get used to a slightly less responsive mouse fairly quickly, but the first few movements feel off and lagged a bit.
post #354 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by chr1spe View Post

I don't really like the word "raw" as I don't know what it really means, but yeah the 3366 in the g303 feels more responsive than any other mouse I have tried. Admittedly I haven't tried a ton of mice for a long period of time, but honestly I feel my immediate opinions on responsiveness may be the most accurate because I can kind of get used to a slightly less responsive mouse fairly quickly, but the first few movements feel off and lagged a bit.

I understand, but what I mean is the feeling of being in complete control of the cursor(not a hint of artificial movement), as well as very fast/accurate response. Especially noticeable if you do small figures or very small circles / 8-figures.
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post #355 of 908
"Raw" is pretty much a buzz/filler word at this point. Some people regard the 9500 as feeling more "raw" than some optical sensors, while others have claimed the opposite. So it's not necessary directly equated to accel, smoothing (oh god, that word), responsiveness, precision, etc...

So I agree the use of it is largely irrelevant, since like with all the other catchphrases people don't actually agree on what it means definitively. Not to mention it's bundled with the word "feels" 99% of the time.
post #356 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillion View Post

"Raw" is pretty much a buzz/filler word at this point. Some people regard the 9500 as feeling more "raw" than some optical sensors, while others have claimed the opposite. So it's not necessary directly equated to accel, smoothing (oh god, that word), responsiveness, precision, etc...

So I agree the use of it is largely irrelevant, since like with all the other catchphrases people don't actually agree on what it means definitively. Not to mention it's bundled with the word "feels" 99% of the time.

Something something wrong term for smoothing, smoothing means a smoothed out mouse movement not input delay in the niche part of the mouse community something something.

That's what MaximilianKohler was on about right? Something about smoothing meaning a smoothed out or artificially processed movement and not input delay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasMW View Post

Where did you get that from?

AFAIK Test-gear claimed it's closer to 2.4mm.

That's probably correct, I assumed it was 1.4mm because of "feeling" but it's definitely higher than that.
Edited by Alya - 2/28/16 at 1:29pm
    
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post #357 of 908
Actually smoothing algorithms usually produce input delay.
post #358 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

Actually smoothing algorithms usually produce input delay.

Let's not start with this biggrin.gif I just wanted to share impressions about how 3366 feels better than 3310.
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post #359 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by exitone View Post

Good 3310 implementations have always been reported as better than Logitech's 3366 implementation. Logitech does everything themselves so there's a lot of tiny aspects of a mouse they can screw up and a lot of the time they don't care since it won't affect sales.

However specwise Logitech 3366 or 3360 is significantly better than 3310

I was using the ZA13 yesterday along side the G100S. The ZA13 felt weird, it felt like using the 3090 Zowie mice on the 1150 CPI setting. The G100S felt a little off compared to my WMO and IMO running on 1000Hz.

Initially, the G100S was making it hard to time the click and control the buttons properly. It's takes some practice to get used to the timing of the G100S. Often I miss click, causing a double shot, it's not the fault of the mouse it's me not lifting my finger at the right time. I don't know if I struggle a little because of the smoothing and the 500Hz polling rate or the buttons and the mouse feet.

The ZA13 is much easier to land the first shot; it's like the mouse gives me a lot of time to complete the flick shot. I guess it's a combination of delay and big mouse feet. That's okay when I am doing a single swipe, but not so much when I am constantly moving the mouse. Based on a day of use, the 3310 Zowie feels like a 3090 Zowie set to 1150 and 1000Hz.

I didn't really have an issue with the response and the buttons of the G303. It was mostly the shape and the mouse feet that bothered me. Not that the G100S shape is great, but it isn't as bad as the G303. The sensor implementation of the G303 felt way better than the ZA13, more "twitchy" than the G100S and didn't have the high LOD of the G100S.

I am struggling to decided to keep the 3310 ZA13. The shape is more comfortable than the G100S. The sensor doesn't feel much better than my 3090 Zowie mice. The buttons feel more defined than my FK. The height is 1-2mm too high and the width is lacking a lot considering the shape of the mouse.

I heard that there is some new Logitech products. Not sure if that person was referring to mice. Maybe it's a good idea to send the ZA13 back and buy a used white logo ZA13, then buy a new Logitech mouse.
Edited by popups - 2/28/16 at 2:22pm
post #360 of 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by M1st View Post

Actually smoothing algorithms usually produce input delay.

Thank you captain obvious that's exactly what I said, if you didn't notice, I was imitating MaximilianKohler.

On topic: Does anyone else notice that their left and right click require different amounts of force to actuate? It's really frustrating to me. I'm trying to figure out if this is an isolated issue or not, it feels like my left click is mushy while my right click is tactile.
Edited by Alya - 2/28/16 at 2:24pm
    
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