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[Videocardz]AMD’s “Project F” is 232mm2 discrete GPU made in 14LPP process - Page 3

post #21 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

You would think a 14nm should be exactly half the size of a 28nm

Basic maths would make you think that a chip ported to 14nm, should be exactly 1/4th the size of a 28nm chip, because surface area is a quadratic measure.

But yeah, outside of that, good disclaimer.
Edited by Tivan - 2/13/16 at 12:47pm
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post #22 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

Thing is, if the small chip already performs at least as well as the 960 (which is roughly ~10-15% slower than a 380) it makes absolutely zero sense for the bigger chip to be right on top of that. The smallest difference should be in the 25% range for the cut down version which would put this in line with the 390.
Perf/W doubled from 6970 to 7870. This should be an even bigger difference, since the difference in nodes is bigger.

Yes performance per/W did improve but performance and price did not.
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post #23 of 99
To be fair, the 6000 series was also very cheap, and AMD was in a good enough position with their move to 28nm that they could price the way they did. Lack of a performance increase is expected. Usually, last generation's flagship or an equivalent is the not-quite-highest-end GPU the next one. So the 7800 chips replaced the 6900 chips, and were replaced by the 270 chips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

No, 14nm/16nm is physically more or less 20nm

[Citation needed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

232mm^2 wasn't always low-end. The 4870 was certainly high-end when it came out, and it was only 256mm^2.

Thanks to AMD's small die strategy, that is correct. Cheaper and easier to produce than Nvidia's monolithic dies. But it's clear that that strategy has gone out the window, ever since Hawaii confirmed it. The Fiji die found in the Furies and the Nano is a massive 596mm2, one of the biggest GPUs ever made and pushing TSMC's fabs to the limit. That's the biggest reason neither AMD no Nvidia included much in the way of FP64 computing in Fiji or GM200; it would take up too much precious die space.
Edited by CynicalUnicorn - 2/13/16 at 1:12pm
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post #24 of 99
Come on guys.. this thing is going to blow the 380 out of the water. Even if Polaris doesn't include a per core performance boost, you can cram a lot more SPs on 14nm than on 28nm.

This is probably going to have around 290x level of performance and it ought to sell for around $250 tops.
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post #25 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

No, 14nm/16nm is physically more or less 20nm

[Citation needed]

He's probably thinking of this:

post #26 of 99
I am not all that confident in this project F being an actual production chip. The source doesnt give much context but as of right now, projects C, D, and E dont appear to be existing 28nm products. I suppose one or two could be eventual R7 equivalent replacements.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

We have nothing really to compare but die size. A "14nm" 232mm² die should pack roughly the same transistors as a 28nm 375mm² die would. You would think a 14nm should be exactly half the size of a 28nm, but that isnt really true because much of what is called 14nm is actually closer to the 20nm sizes on transistors.
Anyway, just because of die size estimations people are thinking of R9 380 performance level because the sizes would be similar. Realistically, we should be a bit higher since we are also going to see some good architecture improvements this time around as well.

According to TSMC, their 16ff+ has 2 times the density of their 28hpm.
post #27 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivan View Post

It's a possibility that this thing will end up faster than the 390 in some usage cases, so it might replace it pretty seamlessly.

edit: If you've seen the material AMD has been releasing around polaris, it's pretty clear they want to paint a picture of the architecture being better, not necessarily much faster per dollar, on release.

If it's better than the 390 in some scenarios, and not faster overall, no way this could end up being the replace of the 390.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tojara View Post

Thing is, if the small chip already performs at least as well as the 960 (which is roughly ~10-15% slower than a 380) it makes absolutely zero sense for the bigger chip to be right on top of that. The smallest difference should be in the 25% range for the cut down version which would put this in line with the 390.
Perf/W doubled from 6970 to 7870. This should be an even bigger difference, since the difference in nodes is bigger.

About the small chip, we don't know how much it performs. We see a specific scenario in what performs equally to the 950, so we only can speculate that it will target the 950 performance. The bigger one, the one that we are discussing, we can asume that is targeting the 960/380 spot.
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post #28 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinholueiro View Post

2012, yes, but a high end. A 380 at 149$/€ and a low power consumption and it will sell a lot.


I don't think that would sound good for a 2016 card.

AMD R9 380 levels of performance for 150€ in mid-late 2016? headscratch.gif
I can already get a brand new 380 non reference for 185€ ~ currently.


I just don't understand. Am I the only one feeling like I am in the wrong movie? The 380 or probable equivalent is not the kind of performance I'd like to have in 2016. Looking at recent games and what expects us in the future I'd not be happy with a 380 kinda card.

Are people being pessimistic because they don't want to get disappointed or am I missing some valuable information that says 2016 is going to be bad for GPUs, Polaris is going to be bad, Pascal is going to be bad, 14nm is going to be bad, HBM/GDDR5X/GDDR6 is going to be bad, yields are going to be bad?


Well whatever it is. I stand by my expectations that this is probably the GPU AMD was talking about when they said VR at a reasonable price point for customers and we all know the minimum requirements are an R9 290 and there is no way this new Polaris GPU is much worse than a R9 290.
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post #29 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by zealord View Post

I don't think that would sound good for a 2016 card.

AMD R9 380 levels of performance for 150€ in mid-late 2016? headscratch.gif
I can already get a brand new 380 non reference for 185€ ~ currently.


I just don't understand. Am I the only one feeling like I am in the wrong movie? The 380 or probable equivalent is not the kind of performance I'd like to have in 2016. Looking at recent games and what expects us in the future I'd not be happy with a 380 kinda card.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Are people being pessimistic because they don't want to get disappointed or am I missing some valuable information that says 2016 is going to be bad for GPUs, Polaris is going to be bad, Pascal is going to be bad, 14nm is going to be bad, HBM/GDDR5X/GDDR6 is going to be bad, yields are going to be bad?


Well whatever it is. I stand by my expectations that this is probably the GPU AMD was talking about when they said VR at a reasonable price point for customers and we all know the minimum requirements are an R9 290 and there is no way this new Polaris GPU is much worse than a R9 290.

Hell. The 950 in my backup rig can play any game at 1440p. 1080p is a breeze. A GPU with the performance of a 380 at $150 should be more then enough for the 1080p crowd at the price range.
     
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post #30 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chargeit View Post

Hell. The 950 in my backup rig can play any game at 1440p. 1080p is a breeze. A GPU with the performance of a 380 at $150 should be more then enough for the 1080p crowd at the price range.

Today I learned that a 950 "can play any game at 1440p" .

Well either we have a completely different definition of what "play" means, you turn down most settings or you have some special GTX 950.

The GTX 950 I am talking about gets these results :

2560x1440 : Assassin's Creed Unity 9.7 fps.

2560x1440 : Crysis 3 14.2 fps

2560x1440 : GTA V 26.9 fps

2560x1440 : The Witcher 3 21.4 fps

2560x1440 : Rise of the Tomb Raider 18 fps
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