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[Ars] France says Facebook must face French law in nudity censorship case

post #1 of 86
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Quote:
Facebook will have to face a censorship lawsuit over a 19th century oil painting of a woman's genitalia, a Paris appeals court ruled on Friday.

The ruling favored a French teacher whose Facebook account was suspended when he posted an image (NSFW) of a famous Gustave Courbet painting called L’Origine du monde. The portrait depicts a woman naked from the waist down at a graphic angle, and it hangs in the Musée d’Orsay in Paris.
Quote:
In March 2015, the Superior Court in Paris agreed with the teacher, saying he had a right to sue under French law, and Facebook took its loss to an appeals court. The appeals court agreed that Facebook’s Terms of Service were “abusive” and "violated French consumer law by making it difficult for people in France to sue,” according to the BBC.

Source.



Another example of how EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.
 
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post #2 of 86
This is news to anyone that EULA's mean actually jack to anyone outside the origin country? rolleyes.gif Of course your site has to comply with local laws, don't like that, welp...too bad.
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post #3 of 86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

This is news to anyone that EULA's mean actually jack to anyone outside the origin country? rolleyes.gif

Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.

Also, some people repeatedly say that Microsoft gets all the negative attention these days when that is blatantly untrue.

This and the other news thread I just posted say otherwise.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1591366/ars-clock-ticking-for-facebook-to-stop-tracking-french-netizens/0_30#post_24895674

Many countries' authorities, not just the people, are not happy with the current state of things.
 
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post #4 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.

Also, some people repeatedly say that Microsoft gets all the negative attention these days when that is blatantly untrue.

This and the other news thread I just posted say otherwise.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1591366/ars-clock-ticking-for-facebook-to-stop-tracking-french-netizens/0_30#post_24895674

Many countries' authorities, not just the people, are not happy with the current state of things.

EULAs are actually legally binding as are TOS's - Only when they go above and beyond to violate federal/state law do they come into question.

Your presumption is that they're not binding at all, which is false...

The cases in which the EULA's fail, are blatantly overstepping the local law.

Case in point, Sony vs. Hotz - Sony didn't actually lose the entirety of the case...They lost on a portion of the EULA because it overstepped that legality.

Doesn't mean TOS's and EULA's aren't legally binding, it simply means they have to abide by the law, too.
post #5 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

EULAs are actually legally binding as are TOS's - Only when they go above and beyond to violate federal/state law do they come into question.

Your presumption is that they're not binding at all, which is false...

The cases in which the EULA's fail, are blatantly overstepping the local law.

Case in point, Sony vs. Hotz - Sony didn't actually lose the entirety of the case...They lost on a portion of the EULA because it overstepped that legality.

Doesn't mean TOS's and EULA's aren't legally binding, it simply means they have to abide by the law, too.

Well, once I do actually agree with you. smile.gif
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post #6 of 86
Thread Starter 
Masked, you are putting words in my mouth.

I'm not presuming anything.

What I said:

Post nr 1: EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.

Post nr 2: Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.


What you are taking from the second statement is out of your own reasoning, not mine.

EULAs and ToSs do not have the same force as a law because they are not laws. They are even at a lower standard than legal directives (under many different names) that many countries have, these are lower level that do have legal status but don't have the same force as laws, and have to be in accordance with them.

EULAs and ToS are just like any ordinary contract that is subjected to the scrutiny of a court of law of any given country. They can be entirely in accordance with the law, partially or be completely illegal.
Edited by tpi2007 - 2/15/16 at 6:28am
 
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post #7 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Masked, you are putting words in my mouth.

I'm not presuming anything.

What I said:

Post nr 1: EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.

Post nr 2: Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.


What you are taking from the second statement is out of your own reasoning, not mine.

EULAs and ToSs do not have the same force as a law because they are not laws. They are even at a lower standard than legal directives (under many different names) that many countries have, these are lower level that do have legal status but don't have the same force as a law, and have to be in accordance with it.

EULAs and ToS are just like any ordinary contract that are subjected to the scrutiny of laws of any given country. They can be entirely in accordance with the law, partially or completely illegal.

Ummmm, yes you are.
Quote:
pre·sume
prəˈz(y)o͞om/
verb
gerund or present participle: presuming

1.
suppose that something is the case on the basis of probability


1 - Sometimes they are not - Not many. Lawyers spend years on EULA's...Thus the arbitration...Sometimes they get it wrong. That doesn't immediately call them //all// into question nor, does it infer that there are "many".

2 - They do have the same force of law - when they follow the law.

Have you ever read an ENTIRE Eula? At this point I'm going to say - no - For the first time in a long time, I will make an assumption.

Your average EULA essentially reiterates the law, actually and based on that law, they specify operating parameters while outlining consequences regarding their services.

For example: If you hack a Playstation 4 and get caught on-line, your Playstation 4 will lose it's warranty and it's service thus forth will be invalidated.

Hotz LOST that portion of the case because he actually broke the law.

Sony's consequences overreached what was legally possible thus, Hotz WON that portion of the case.

ALA, a EULA/TOS is actually legally binding within the 4 corners of the law. When it oversteps, it can be invalidated.

Also - No - Again, most of these EULA's see more scrutiny than any other legal documents - They are not //ALL// illegal nor do all overreach...

Again, 90% of EULA's actually reiterate the law and outline the consequences of your nefarious actions with their product - Nothing more, nothing less - Doesn't make them denizens of evil and also doesn't change the fact that they are binding contracts as long as they stay within the law.
post #8 of 86
Thread Starter 
You are just playing a fruitless game of semantics.


When a EULA just outright copy pastes an article of the law then it's pretty much obvious that that clause has the same effect as what is contained in a law, because it is what is written in the law.

Now, we all know how complex, twisted and singular EULAs and ToS can be, the clauses they have are not direct quotes from the law and as such are not the law, they have to analysed to see if they are in accordance with it.


TL;DR: In everything that isn't a direct copy paste of the law, EULA's and ToSs have to be subjected to analysis to see if they are in accordance with the law, because they are not the law.

It's very simple actually.

You're again making arguments for the sake of it.



Also, your other assumption is completely wrong, I've read many EULAs and TOSs.
 
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post #9 of 86
And yet they cover everything up when an Islam leader comes to visit, ironic. Or was that Rome?
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post #10 of 86
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It was in Italy, yes, and from what it seems it was an overzealous employee that did it.
 
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