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[Ars] France says Facebook must face French law in nudity censorship case - Page 2

post #11 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You are just playing a fruitless game of semantics.

When a EULA just outright copy pastes an article of the law then it's pretty much obvious that that clause has the same effect as what is contained in a law, because it is what is written in the law.

Now, we all know how complex, twisted and singular EULAs and ToS can be, the clauses they have are not direct quotes from the law and as such are not the law, they have to analysed to see if they are in accordance with it.

TD;DR: In everything that isn't a direct copy paste of the law, EULA's and ToSs have to be subjected to analysis to see if they are in accordance with the law, because they are not the law.

It's very simple actually.

You're again making arguments for the sake of it.

Also, your other assumption is completely wrong, I've read many EULAs.

I'm not playing semantics - You presumed that every EULA moving forward is invalid at least, that's what you inferred - I oppose that due to the scrutiny your average EULA undergoes...

I actually agree with the French - Art is art - Nude or not.

That doesn't change the precedent set forth by other EULA's already...Hotz vs. Sony is actually a BIG one because it validated that EULA's/Tos's are actually legally binding as long as they follow the letter of the law.

90% of EULAs are a direct copy/paste of the law - We all know that...

They should all be subjected to analysis and I absolutely agree but, that doesn't invalidate them OR mean that MANY are called into question - It means Facebook, this ONE EULA, was wrong and it's being dealt with.

ONE CASE is different from your original presumption:
Quote:
EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.

Evidence? You made the statement, where are the MANY Eula's and Tos's that are not in accordance with local law?

I'm glad my assumption was wrong...Makes for a good discussion.
post #12 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

It was in Italy, yes, and from what it seems it was an overzealous employee that did it.

LOL! Yeah.

You go to Europe to see Europe, part of it all is the nude sculptures and paintings. It doesn't matter what background you come from it is what it is and we should embrace culture and history to reflect on the past.
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post #13 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Masked, you are putting words in my mouth.

I'm not presuming anything.

What I said:

Post nr 1: EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.

Post nr 2: Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.

The other thing you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

This and the other news thread I just posted say otherwise.

You don't see how people might think you think otherwise?
post #14 of 86
I'm confused with how this is even a legal issue.

Facebook isnt a right, or even a paid service. I would think that FB could suspend anyone's account for any reason without any legal implications.

If FB suspends my account am I really harmed in any way?
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post #15 of 86
Thread Starter 
Again?
Quote:
You presumed that every EULA moving forward is invalid at least, that's what you inferred

No, I did NOT. Period. Read what I wrote. Stop making false assumptions. EULAs have to be subjected to analysis because they are not the law, they have to be in accordance with it. They are and always will be at a lower level.


How many examples do you want? All the consumer protection laws that have been passed all over the world in recent decades in recognition and to make clear (many times a country's Constitution already gives protection, albeit in a general way that benefits from a more detailed law) that there are abusive small print clauses in banking, sales, etc.
 
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post #16 of 86
Bickering, Terms of Service and French people.
This seems like something I've seen before, eh @TwoCables? wink.gif

On topic, then: Guys, relax. We're all friends here and arguing semantics isn't gonna make anyone's day any happier.
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post #17 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Masked, you are putting words in my mouth.

I'm not presuming anything.

What I said:

Post nr 1: EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.

Post nr 2: Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.

The other thing you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

This and the other news thread I just posted say otherwise.

You don't see how people might think you think otherwise?



What? You realize that you just took that out of context, don't you?

Quote:
Also, some people repeatedly say that Microsoft gets all the negative attention these days when that is blatantly untrue.

This and the other news thread I just posted say otherwise.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1591366/ars-clock-ticking-for-facebook-to-stop-tracking-french-netizens/0_30#post_24895674
 
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post #18 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Again?
No, I did NOT. Period. Read what I wrote. Stop making false assumptions. EULAs have to be subjected to analysis because they are not the law, they have to be in accordance with it. They are and always will be at a lower level.


How many examples do you want? All the consumer protection laws that have been passed all over the world in recent decades in recognition and to make clear (many times a country's Constitution already gives protection, albeit in a general way that benefits from a more detailed law) that there are abusive small print clauses in banking, sales, etc.

Yes you did.

You made a very blatant presumption that "many" EULAs are now (currently) in violation of the law.

Prove it.

That's all I asked.

If you can't prove it, your presumption is wrong.

I agree with the premise - EULA's need more scrutiny.

I do NOT agree with the stance that "many" EULA's are now invalidated because of Facebook's SINGULAR EULA issue.

Mand is asking, at least IMO, for the same proof.

You made a statement - back it up.
post #19 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Yes you did.

You made a very blatant presumption that "many" EULAs are now (currently) in violation of the law.

Prove it.

That's all I asked.

If you can't prove it, your presumption is wrong.

I agree with the premise - EULA's need more scrutiny.

I do NOT agree with the stance that "many" EULA's are now invalidated because of Facebook's SINGULAR EULA issue.

Mand is asking, at least IMO, for the same proof.

You made a statement - back it up.

What is your position? Why do you view EULAs as more important than laws? Why do you care so much?
post #20 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Yes you did.

You made a very blatant presumption that "many" EULAs are now (currently) in violation of the law.

Prove it.

That's all I asked.

If you can't prove it, your presumption is wrong.

I agree with the premise - EULA's need more scrutiny.

I do NOT agree with the stance that "many" EULA's are now invalidated because of Facebook's SINGULAR EULA issue.

Mand is asking, at least IMO, for the same proof.

You made a statement - back it up.


This is getting surreal.

This is what I said regarding the matter (this italic is for you Mand):
Quote:
Another example of how EULAs and ToSs are many times not in accordance with local laws.
Quote:
Many people do indeed think that EULAs and ToSs have the same force as a law.

Anything else you say beyond that, attributing it to me, is abusive.

Where did I say that ""many" EULAs are now (currently) in violation of the law." ? Prove I said that. You're making abusive statements and deriving abusive conclusions about what I said.

It's beyond ridiculous now.
Edited by tpi2007 - 2/15/16 at 7:46am
 
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