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[Ars] France says Facebook must face French law in nudity censorship case - Page 6

post #51 of 86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Another entertaining thread brought to you by Masked. jerry.gif

Since when did asking for proof become so "entertaining"?

Oh, that's right, when the OP, pretends nobody asked the question all morning then provides links that date back nearly a decade ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Honestly, it's no longer that entertaining. It usually plays out where he comes to argue something fairly obvious/trivial, gets burned, and then never returns. Getting old IMHO

On topic: If FB wants to be available internationally, they need to ensure their actions abide by the laws in each of the countries their site is accessible in. Pretty simple

rolleyes.gif All I asked for was proof.

He alleged this was happening constantly - It's not.

God, asking for proof is getting old? Wonder what you say to Jehova's Witnesses...rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post


Of course you did. You weren't disputing in your first post what you are disputing now.

Well, I knew this was already surreal, but you could do without bringing in an alien meat example lol.

Anyway, you want proof, here goes then:

rolleyes.gif Only one of your sources is less than 5 years old...And it was in clear violation of the law.

Again, reread what you've submitted from an objective viewpoint. The rhetoric in your posts, leaves someone to believe that this is commonplace. That EULAs and TOSs are abused on a daily basis - The truth is they're not. They're few and far between because of the last decade of litigation. Therefor, there are not MANY current examples of EULA/TOS infringement.

I haven't changed my stance, once.

I agree with your premise.

I disagree with the mentality that this is commonplace...That EULAs exist to "screw" us as you make them out to be, because it's factually untrue.



You make a lot of assumptions. Wrong ones at that.

The first one being that I'm in the same timezone as you are. No, it wasn't morning here in Europe.

And no, I didn't pretend you didn't ask the question. At first I directed you to all the consumer protection legislation that has been passed over the years to make it clear that many clauses in many business sectors' contracts including banking, sales, etc, were illegal. To most people that would have been enough because it's common knowledge that such legislation didn't come out of thin air, but because so many cases happened that legal clarification, sometimes a putting in law of jurisprudence, was needed.

But you pretended, wrongly, that I was making an accusation of disproportionate size and misused quotation marks to try to put words in my mouth to bring your point home. You were the one overinflating the issue.

But still, there is an issue involving big names nonetheless and I provided the proof you required.

The facts are that it has happened and it is happening all over the world. As you saw, I didn't limit myself to quoting US cases. Many more exist and I'd have to spend a lot more time digging in legal databases of foreign countries to post them here. And as you should also know, in some cases people simply don't bother with the EULAs and ToSs and neither do the companies to enforce them, because they'd likely fail in court - it's cases where lawyers just get to have fun charging extra for stuff that nobody really cares about, even though they pretend they do.


Edit: And no, it's not only one of the sources that is less than five years old, it's actually three sources, two from 2012 and one from 2014.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You are right, there is no copyright for that painting nor the photographic reproduction of it, it's in the public domain since it was painted by French artist Gustave Courbet in 1866.

Museum/Gallery Property is exempt from public domain. For example Art Collections are considered their own Copyright. Therefore if the said painting is apart of a collection then it is not Public Domain. Same can be said for Showcases of old artifacts etc.


The painting in question was acquired by Musée d'Orsay (Paris), where it is in display, in 1995. It's a public museum and the painting is in the public domain. As I said before, it was painted in 1866, the laws of the country say that it is in the public domain.
Edited by tpi2007 - 2/15/16 at 1:11pm
 
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post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

You make a lot of assumptions. Wrong ones at that.

The first one being that I'm in the same timezone as you are. No, it wasn't morning here in Europe.

And no, I didn't pretend you didn't ask the question. At first I directed you to all the consumer protection legislation that has been passed over the years to make it clear that many clauses in many business sectors' contracts including banking, sales, etc, were illegal. To most people that would have been enough because it's common knowledge that such legislation didn't come out of thin air, but because so many cases happened that legal clarification, sometimes a putting in law of jurisprudence, was needed.

But you pretended, wrongly, that I was making an accusation of disproportionate size and misused quotation marks to try to put words in my mouth to bring your point home. You were the one overinflating the issue.

But still, there is an issue involving big names nonetheless and I provided the proof you required.

The facts are that it has happened and it is happening all over the world. As you saw, I didn't limit myself to quoting US cases. Many more exist and I'd have to spend a lot more time digging in legal databases of foreign countries to post them here. And as you should also know, in some cases people simply don't bother with the EULAs and ToSs and neither do the companies to enforce them, because they'd likely fail in court - it's cases where lawyers just get to have fun charging extra for stuff that nobody really cares about, even though they pretend they do..

I made one assumption. It was wrong - Didn't make more.

Never once said you were in any timezone. Never insinuated your location. Wrong again, sir.

Yes you did, sir, even Mand reiterated it.

The CPA exists for a reason, I'm glad they've passed what they have. Business contracts are not TOS's/EULAs per the context of this discussion.

I never pretended or insinuated that you accused anyone. I said that you presumed the problem was/is significantly larger than it is - Which is true. You exaggerated on your premise and you were proven, wrong.

In the past 5 years, there have only been a few cases about EULA's/TOS violations because everyone woke up...That's what I was actually referring to - RECENT cases. 10//5 years - are not recent.

I never once insinuated it was just in the US...You know since this case is obviously centered in France, I think it's very clear this isn't solely a US issue.

Your final quip is also irrelevant because a TOS/EULA is a legally binding contract as long as it falls within the parameters of local laws...Which we discussed earlier.

Also - You claim that my stance changed...Post #7 -
Quote:
1 - Sometimes they are not - Not many. Lawyers spend years on EULA's...Thus the arbitration...Sometimes they get it wrong. That doesn't immediately call them //all// into question nor, does it infer that there are "many".

My stance hasn't changed and won't change.

I don't disagree with your premise, I disagree with the rampancy by which you claim, it exists...Burger King, Taco Bell - Everyone is serving alien meat!
post #53 of 86
Thread Starter 
I didn't say that your stance changed, I said that you shifted your focus to argue something else compared to your first post.

Also I made an edit to my previous post to correct you, it's three sources that are less than fives years old, not one.

Also, again, you were the one overinflating things to the surreal point of putting in quotation marks things that I didn't say.




But things are not as rosy as you seem to make them out either. Let's not pretend that companies are saints because they will try to get away with what they can whenever they can.

This article is from last year: Techdirt: Legislators Introduce Bill Calling For Nationwide Ban On Non-Disparagement Clauses

You'd think that there was a reason and that such laws don't come out of thin air.

It's because of this: Techdirt: Here Are The Companies That Want To Charge You $2,500-$100,000 For Negative Reviews

In the article above none other than nineteen companies with non-disparagement clauses are listed.
 
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post #54 of 86
I'm still confused as to how FB users are considered consumers in the first place and therefore how "consumer protection laws" apply to them at all? I mean, FB profiles are free and nobody is losing anything they paid for by having their profiles suspended or deleted. How can ANY government force FB to provide a person with a FB account?
post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I'm still confused as to how FB users are considered consumers in the first place and therefore how "consumer protection laws" apply to them at all? I mean, FB profiles are free and nobody is losing anything they paid for by having their profiles suspended or deleted. How can ANY government force FB to provide a person with a FB account?

That is a legitimate question, and I am sure it will be answered in the coming court battle.
    
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post #56 of 86
Nothing is free. Facebook users are simply paying in other ways for the service are they not? Facebook is making money somehow and they're using their users to do so. To me that makes them customers and facebook a service business.



*not a facebook user*
post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I'm still confused as to how FB users are considered consumers in the first place and therefore how "consumer protection laws" apply to them at all? I mean, FB profiles are free and nobody is losing anything they paid for by having their profiles suspended or deleted. How can ANY government force FB to provide a person with a FB account?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

That is a legitimate question, and I am sure it will be answered in the coming court battle.

Not likely since it has nothing to do with the case. It would be a good question if in fact the French government was trying to force facebook to provide an account. Since the original lawsuit is about censorship and the appeal involved a section of the terms of service you will likely not get an answer to a question that no one, other than yourself, is asking. You are confused about the subject of the lawsuit, it has nothing to do with a persons right to have a facebook account or the French government trying to force FB to provide this man with an account.
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post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I'm still confused as to how FB users are considered consumers in the first place and therefore how "consumer protection laws" apply to them at all? I mean, FB profiles are free and nobody is losing anything they paid for by having their profiles suspended or deleted. How can ANY government force FB to provide a person with a FB account?

Haven't you ever heard the saying... If a service is free, and doesn't provide any content, then you're the service.

Without users, there would be no one to click on Facebook ads.

http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-average-revenue-per-user-is-up-sharply-2015-11
Edited by 2010rig - 2/15/16 at 10:04pm
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post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I'm still confused as to how FB users are considered consumers in the first place and therefore how "consumer protection laws" apply to them at all? I mean, FB profiles are free and nobody is losing anything they paid for by having their profiles suspended or deleted. How can ANY government force FB to provide a person with a FB account?

Since Facebook makes money off users' interactions, you could say the time a user uses Facebook is the payment to Facebook.
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post #60 of 86
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Not likely since it has nothing to do with the case. It would be a good question if in fact the French government was trying to force facebook to provide an account. Since the original lawsuit is about censorship and the appeal involved a section of the terms of service you will likely not get an answer to a question that no one, other than yourself, is asking. You are confused about the subject of the lawsuit, it has nothing to do with a persons right to have a facebook account or the French government trying to force FB to provide this man with an account.

I am not confused about the basis for the lawsuit. Censorship or not, it is Facebook's platform, they ultimately control it. Even on grounds of censorship, Facebook is likely to argue they can do that, because it is their service and they have the right to manage it how they want.

As my previous statement said; had FB simply told the user they are going to refuse service, and not list a reason, they couldn't have been challenged. So now FB gets to argue, in court, why they can censor.
    
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