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post #451 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Your statement did not carry with it anything regarding brand of processor you simply said games don't use more than 4 cores. When you endeavor to speak in absolutes, there is a good possibility that you will be absolutely wrong, which you were in that case.
When faced with a fact that is contrary to my belief i see it as an opportunity to learn , you don't seem to share that philosophy.

I did not speak in an absolute I spoke in a generalization. A generalization that is correct, you have yet to show that is not correct, you have only shown what the entire community already knows, that handful of games out of the billions around supports more than 4c. The list of games is so small that it really isn't even worth mentioning, I did not "Learn" anything, your assumption that you are changing the way people think about cores or teaching myself something I do not know, is overly exaggerated is the point you are missing.

I did mention a brand, when the context of what I was saying, was about Intel CPUs, also to the reply to of the previous statement. So take things out of context and correct a generalization and then expect to be met with open arms, ya not going to happen.

As I said your I found your entire statement and post to be arrogant and petty. a Simple well there is a few games that support more than 4cs, would have sufficed and this convo would have been different.

You spoke out of turn with assumptions that I did not know that there is a few select titles that support 6c. You used a generalization to put your testing on a pedestal, my statement is still true aside from a few games. As said a few games does not make an absolute. In every study ever that holds true, there is a saying "Majority Rules".

What I then find funny is that you turned around and did something the same except on a subject area that is not correct. You said "every game but Skyrim showed significant gains above 4 cores" well this statement is so false it is not even funny. Every Game YOU TESTED, this may be true, you also cherry picked your games to ones that support more than 4cs. Yet you generalized a statement and gave the minority the absolute which is must less politically correct than what I did.

Than there is issues, with your method of testing. Your title speaks in absolutes that you accuse me of. Your CPU sample size is way to small, I could go on but as I have said this argument is pointless as it was when you started it, so bye I am done.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 2/28/16 at 11:13am
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post #452 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

That is a good CPU smile.gif, my RIVBE died thats why I am moving to x99 frown.gif. I did plan on moving there when the RVBE comes out with broadwell E anyway though. Which I actually still am, my office laptop is aged so I am building a x99 for that, then when broadwell a x99 for my man cave smile.gif.
Skylake E is going to be sooo good, I super hope that Asus keeps this monochrome aspect for RVIE if they do I will go Skylake as well. If they dont, then I will have to wait for the Kaby BE. I love my rampages but I cannot stand all the red.

I had a Rivbe, actually traded it in for an X79-Deluxe LOL.

The Rivbe was nice and all, but had just a tad too many bells and whistles for my liking. Plus not sure if I got a defective board or not, but the VRMs ran pretty hot (50C) even when just idling. Stress testing actually caused the VRMs to go over their throttling point and crash my OC. Same OC was perfectly stable on X79-Deluxe.

Oh and one more thing that really annoyed me was how close the first PCIe slot was to the ram and the I/O shroud. If the backplate on my GPU was any thicker it would not have made it.
post #453 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

every game but skyrim showed significant gains above 4 cores

Every game you tested you mean, which isn't a very large sample to begin with. You tested

  • Crysis 3 (poster child for multicore/thread scaling)
  • GTA V
  • Final Fantasy's Heavensward benchmark (which showed ~5% gain in FPS on going from 4 to 8 cores)
  • Counterstrike: Source (again 6% gain going 4 to 8 cores)
  • Tomb Raider 2013
  • Bioshock Infinite (8% gain, 4 to 8 cores)
  • Skyrim (3% difference)
  • Hitman Absolution
  • Battlefield 4


That's literally less than 10 games. And of the 9 (one of which is a benchmark to boot) tested, almost half showed <10% gain on going from 4 to 8 cores. So I'm really not sure how you're making these sweeping generalizations.

In addition, CPU testing by Techspot show pretty much little to no gain on going beyond 4 cores on an Intel CPU:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





And finally this was my own testing with Sleeping Dogs from quite a while back:



Thanks for doing the math for me .


Would you mind testing sleeping dogs 4 vs 6 cores on your rig at 1080 with the lowest possible graphics settings?
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post #454 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Thanks for doing the math for me .


Would you mind testing sleeping dogs 4 vs 6 cores on your rig at 1080 with the lowest possible graphics settings?

Oh okay now I see that in your other thread, you are testing at the absolute lowest GPU settings, lol of course you will see scaling there when you make the CPU a bottleneck.......

LMAO, that is too funny. You are forcing a CPU bottleneck to show that 6 cores can slightly alleviate that. That just shows why your results are no where near that of others even in games where 6 cores do show a slight increase. Your entire tests is setup to give you results you want.
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post #455 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Thanks for doing the math for me .


Would you mind testing sleeping dogs 4 vs 6 cores on your rig at 1080 with the lowest possible graphics settings?

Oh okay now I see that in your other thread, you are testing at the absolute lowest GPU settings, lol of course you will see scaling there when you make the CPU a bottleneck.......

LMAO, that is too funny. You are forcing a CPU bottleneck to show that 6 cores can slightly alleviate that. That just shows why your results are no where near that of others even in games where 6 cores do show a slight increase. Your entire tests is setup to give you results you want.

The test was set in a way that minimized any possible GPU bottleneck interfering with the results.

If you want to test for cpu usage using a GT 610 running Tomb raider 2013 on ultra graphics settings go ahead more power to you thumb.gifrolleyes.gif

I said in the op of that thread that those aren't my normal gaming settings.

In the GTA V benchmark at settings I normally use, I'll get gains on the order of 20% going from 4 to 6 cores and a further gain of + 5 % going to 8. This is at the limits of the settings I can apply to my 780Ti.
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post #456 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The test was set in a way that minimized any possible GPU bottleneck interfering with the results.

If you want to test for cpu usage using a GT 610 running Tomb raider 2013 on ultra graphics settings go ahead more power to you thumb.gifrolleyes.gif

I said in the op of that thread that those aren't my normal gaming settings.

In the GTA V benchmark at settings I normally use, I'll get gains on the order of 20% going from 4 to 6 cores and a further gain of + 5 % going to 8. This is at the limits of the settings I can apply to my 780Ti.

That's... that's not how CPU bottleneck works. Your system is only as fast as its slowest component, so technically speaking, there's ALWAYS going to be a bottleneck somewhere.

Artificially creating a CPU "bottleneck" by running a game at the lowest settings possible (all the while running over 200-300 FPS) is completely unrealistic and pointless, and is bottlenecking a CPU for the sake of bottlenecking it. I think a more realistic definition for CPU bottleneck would be the following (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Yeah, a lot of people use the term bottleneck pretty loosely. You are always going to be limited by something, whether it is GPU, CPU, memory, or something else. So showing that a game scales with CPU speed shows that it is CPU limited, but at least to me, bottleneck implies a significant reduction in performance and not just a linear relationship. But other people see it other ways.

Similar to your example, is a 290X bottlenecking my 4790K because a faster GPU gives me higher speeds?

Bottom line for me is, if you don't intend to game at those "CPU bottleneck" creating settings, then it's nothing more than an academic test.

In any case, here's the Sleeping Dogs data:



Even by artificially creating a CPU bottleneck, you gain 15% in average frames at 1080p going from 4 to 6 cores. That 15% is completely meaningless when you're already running at 250 FPS to begin with.
post #457 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The test was set in a way that minimized any possible GPU bottleneck interfering with the results.

If you want to test for cpu usage using a GT 610 running Tomb raider 2013 on ultra graphics settings go ahead more power to you thumb.gifrolleyes.gif

I said in the op of that thread that those aren't my normal gaming settings.

In the GTA V benchmark at settings I normally use, I'll get gains on the order of 20% going from 4 to 6 cores and a further gain of + 5 % going to 8. This is at the limits of the settings I can apply to my 780Ti.

Right but by doing so you are creating an artificial CPU bottleneck. The CPU bottleneck is alleviated by having more cores, yes I agree with that. However in a realistic test where the GPU is the bottleneck (which is how it should be) you will not see gains from 6c or 8c, nor will the gains be as massive as those you seem to think there is. You are altering the test out of a real world scope and making any findings pretty much irrelevant.

No gamer should be using a GT 610, Integrated Graphics are stronger than that GPU lol.
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post #458 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The test was set in a way that minimized any possible GPU bottleneck interfering with the results.

If you want to test for cpu usage using a GT 610 running Tomb raider 2013 on ultra graphics settings go ahead more power to you thumb.gifrolleyes.gif

I said in the op of that thread that those aren't my normal gaming settings.

In the GTA V benchmark at settings I normally use, I'll get gains on the order of 20% going from 4 to 6 cores and a further gain of + 5 % going to 8. This is at the limits of the settings I can apply to my 780Ti.

That's... that's not how CPU bottleneck works. Your system is only as fast as its slowest component, so technically speaking, there's ALWAYS going to be a bottleneck somewhere.

Artificially creating a CPU "bottleneck" by running a game at the lowest settings possible (all the while running over 200-300 FPS) is completely unrealistic and pointless, and is bottlenecking a CPU for the sake of bottlenecking it. I think a more realistic definition for CPU bottleneck would be the following (emphasis mine):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Yeah, a lot of people use the term bottleneck pretty loosely. You are always going to be limited by something, whether it is GPU, CPU, memory, or something else. So showing that a game scales with CPU speed shows that it is CPU limited, but at least to me, bottleneck implies a significant reduction in performance and not just a linear relationship. But other people see it other ways.

Similar to your example, is a 290X bottlenecking my 4790K because a faster GPU gives me higher speeds?

Bottom line for me is, if you don't intend to game at those "CPU bottleneck" creating settings, then it's nothing more than an academic test.

In any case, here's the Sleeping Dogs data:



Even by artificially creating a CPU bottleneck, you gain 15% in average frames at 1080p going from 4 to 6 cores. That 15% is completely meaningless when you're already running at 250 FPS to begin with.

I appreciate you taking the time to run the test.

So situationally dependant I didn't really know what to expect - not having access to a 6 core Intel cpu - but the gains were there.

I've had the same thought many times when others quote gaming benchmarks at 1024 x 768 resolution and low graphics settings with the intent of showing Intel cpu's superiority in gaming.
In that case It doesn't translate very well to reality. However even at my normal settings there are very very few instances where having more than 4 cores isn't beneficial for gaming on my FX rigs.
Ht on my i 7's is different, seems to be harder to find gaming situation where is beneficial.

If you are bored , you could re run the tests upping the graphics settings and see where returns start to diminish going from 4 to 6 cores. EDIT: at a given resolution smile.gif

Thanks again.
Edited by cssorkinman - 2/28/16 at 12:23pm
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post #459 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheN00bBuilder View Post

Oh! a 1150/1620 overclock makes me capable. Bring it on!


CPU overclocked at all?
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post #460 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Every game you tested you mean, which isn't a very large sample to begin with. You tested

  • Crysis 3 (poster child for multicore/thread scaling)
  • GTA V
  • Final Fantasy's Heavensward benchmark (which showed ~5% gain in FPS on going from 4 to 8 cores)
  • Counterstrike: Source (again 6% gain going 4 to 8 cores)
  • Tomb Raider 2013
  • Bioshock Infinite (8% gain, 4 to 8 cores)
  • Skyrim (3% difference)
  • Hitman Absolution
  • Battlefield 4


That's literally less than 10 games. And of the 9 (one of which is a benchmark to boot) tested, almost half showed <10% gain on going from 4 to 8 cores. So I'm really not sure how you're making these sweeping generalizations.

In addition, CPU testing by Techspot show pretty much little to no gain on going beyond 4 cores on an Intel CPU:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





And finally this was my own testing with Sleeping Dogs from quite a while back: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Vulkan and DX 12 will both allow developers to assign specific CPU cores to specific GPU core/clusters for specific tasks. Hopefully, finally, giving those of us with higher core counts a use.

EDIT:

If true, and it does happen, those AMD FX-8xxx could see a pretty significant boost.

EDIT 2:

Our lively debates aside, let's bring @Mahigan in on this. He would have a much better idea what I am talking about.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 2/28/16 at 12:44pm
    
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