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[Tweaktown] AMD wants to 'spice things up' at GDC, could tease Polaris - Page 17

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I had a 580 when the 7970 launched. I just laughed at the performance the 7970 offered at THE time because it was nothing spectacular in comparison to the 580.

And now the 7970 can be twice fast (Shadows of Mordor, I'm looking at you!)
post #162 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

Given the severity of your rose colored glasses, I have a feel this is going to go no where so I respond once maybe twice if you bring something useful to the conversation...

First, the 580 released in november 2010 whereas the 7970 (non ghz edition) released in june 2012. That's an 18month difference. That's not even remotely the same launch time. It also means your card is less than 4 years old, not 5.

Second the 7970 was ALWAYS faster than the 580. It launched 18 months after the 580, There's no surprise there. Saying "first surpassed the GTX 580" is just useless fluff.

Finally you cherry pick one graph that shows the 7970/280x/390x in a very positive light. How about some other benchmarks from that same site?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




Wait a darn sec. How is it possible that the 770 and the 7970/280x are neck and neck in most of those titles? Oh because both cards got improvements. Some cards do better in certain games than it's direct competitor and vise versa. The 7970 isn't some magical unicorn.

7970 was a fine card and it got improvements over time. But let's not imply that somehow it's tripled in performance in ridiculous claims like this.
Quote:
Even though your GTX 580 was almost the same in performance to my HD 7970 right now your GTX 580 would be lucky to run games at a third of the HD 7970 performance[/qoute]

Just take a look at the OG Titan. The 7970 is trailing it and it was 4 time cheaper and months older at release. Look how many times the 7970 is getting withing 10% of the 780 when at release the 780 was a good 40-45% faster. Clearly, Nvidia's card don't age well and it's pretty visible on many many benchmarks. I don't have time to look around, but i've seen Amd's 7970 that was priced at 250$ withing spitting distance of the 999$ OG titan and 650/750$ 780s. Same time is going to happen as soon as they let go of maxwell.
Edited by kingduqc - 2/26/16 at 1:18pm
post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post


Firstly, we both are wrong, the HD 7970 was launched on January 9, 2012. The GHz edition is nothing more than a factory OC, Black Edition, Whatever edition, the HD 7970 is more than 4 years old.

Secondly, using Project Cars, really? I mean, Really?

You're right about the ghz/non-ghz. I looked at one and use the other date. oops

For the benchmarks 3 of the 4 have the 770 and the 7970/280x neck and neck. The ProjectCars benchmarks illustrates that it's pretty easy to cherry pick benchmarks that show the exact opposite trend. pcars is no worse than your starwars battle front example.
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post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post

Firstly, we both are wrong, the HD 7970 was launched on January 9, 2012. The GHz edition is nothing more than a factory OC, Black Edition, Whatever edition, the HD 7970 is more than 4 years old.

Secondly, using Project Cars, really? I mean, Really?
Maybe, but you can still compare it to the GTX 680 for an inverse situation, the GTX 680 launched several months after the HD 7970 on the newest node and it destroyed the HD 7970 but look at it now, irrelevant, not even competitive.

The gtx 680 launched with unusually mature drivers. Considering it's conservative clocks and small die which was 20% smaller than a 7970, it was a wonder it was faster than the 7970 upon launch. The 7970 aged well but it isn't as big as your making out to be. The 280x and gtx 770 are within 10% for performance overall. It's not as big as your making out to be. Considering the smaller die and 2gb frame buffer, the gtx 770 as an architecture aged pretty well.
post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

You're right about the ghz/non-ghz. I looked at one and use the other date. oops

For the benchmarks 3 of the 4 have the 770 and the 7970/280x neck and neck. The ProjectCars benchmarks illustrates that it's pretty easy to cherry pick benchmarks that show the exact opposite trend. pcars is no worse than your starwars battle front example.

It could also illustrate my point of how fast Nvidia cards age, looking at a GTX 960 performing like a titan and trashing a GTX 780.

Leaving that aside, here's a Battlefield 4 Benchmark where the 7970 is neck to neck with the 780, although all of these benchmarks can't really show how good the 7970 have aged, as each driver still adds support for it while the 680 stop doing that long ago, even kepler is being left behind.




This benchmark is 3 years old I'd love to see a Benchmark showing the 7000 series against the 600 series both using the latest drivers, sadly nobody does this, although we have newer games like the Witcher 3.



Please notice of the GTX 680 can't even come close, and this seems to be the norm.
Edited by Dargonplay - 2/26/16 at 12:39pm
post #166 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by serothis View Post

Given the severity of your rose colored glasses, I have a feel this is going to go no where so I respond once maybe twice if you bring something useful to the conversation...

First, the 580 released in november 2010 whereas the 7970 (non ghz edition) released in june 2012. That's an 18month difference. (EDIT: jan 2012 not june) That's not even remotely the same launch time. It also means your card is 4 years old, not 5.

Second the 7970 was ALWAYS faster than the 580. It launched 18 months 12 months after the 580, There's no surprise there. Saying "first surpassed the GTX 580" is just useless fluff.

Finally you cherry pick one graph that shows the 7970/280x/390x in a very positive light. How about some other benchmarks from that same site?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




Wait a darn sec. How is it possible that the 770 and the 7970/280x are neck and neck in most of those titles? Oh because both cards got improvements. Some cards do better in certain games than it's direct competitor and vise versa. The 7970 isn't some magical unicorn.

7970 was a fine card and it got improvements over time. But let's not imply that somehow it's tripled in performance in ridiculous claims like this.
Quote:
Even though your GTX 580 was almost the same in performance to my HD 7970 right now your GTX 580 would be lucky to run games at a third of the HD 7970 performance[/qoute]

You forgot to add that the direct competitor to the 580 was the 6970, since they were both on 40nm. 7970 was on a new architecture on 28nm, its direct competitor was the 680.

AMD took years to optimize the performance of the 7970.
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post #167 of 185
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Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Well I said a more clever design than current AIO cards.
What about a thicker card with a lot of heatsinks like STRIX got, that keeps the card cool enough when everything is shut down?

The heatsink would have to be fused with the pump unit, because otherwise the core itself would still slowly overheat. But yeah if they put the CLC on top of a heatsink "base plate" I guess it could work. although that sacrifices some cooling performance depending on how thick they cut the plate.

Honestly, pump noise is a complete non-issue in modern CLCs. My 2 year old H110 has no pump noise, and the noise from the case fans easily drown out any pump noise if there was any.
post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dargonplay View Post




Please notice how the 380X (HD 7970), a card that was meant to beat your 580 but was hastily defeated by the GTX 680 at launch, Now it not only destroys the GTX 680 Today but its closing the gap and even outperforming a GTX 780, the GTX 680 isn't even relevant anymore, imagine what would the 580 look like, with the 7970 you can still play games like Battlefront maxed out with AA on 1080p with around 75 FPS Average, that is downright impressive from a card that's 5 years old, now compare to another 5 years old card like the GTX 580, the results? Lets just say it isn't even comparable, in fact if I had a GTX 580 I would have needed to upgrade 3 years ago while my HD 7970 is upgrading itself for free, even to the highest level of performance of the newest generations

Please notice how over time the HD 7970 first surpassed the GTX 580, then after a while it kicked the 680 away, and now in this benchmark the HD 7970 is beating the GTX 780, see the difference between a product that last 10 years being usable and one that last that same amount of time while also improving on itself to stay competitive? That's what I like of AMD.

Dargon, with all due respect, you need to be a little more fair in your assessments.

Nobody here can argue how great the 7970 is. As a former owner with a 1285 MHz overclock, I agree.

But looking at the chart you posted, the 780 is 14% faster than the 380x. You call that closing the gap and catching the 780.

The 380x is 18% faster than the 770. You call that as making the 770/680 no longer relevant.

A difference of 4% makes one card legendary and one card irrelevant. That doesn't really make sense.

Like I said, nobody can argue the 7970 wasn't the better card by far.
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post #169 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

Dargon, with all due respect, you need to be a little more fair in your assessments.

Nobody here can argue how great the 7970 is. As a former owner with a 1285 MHz overclock, I agree.

But looking at the chart you posted, the 780 is 14% faster than the 380x. You call that closing the gap and catching the 780.

The 380x is 18% faster than the 770. You call that as making the 770/680 no longer relevant.

A difference of 4% makes one card legendary and one card irrelevant. That doesn't really make sense.

Like I said, nobody can argue the 7970 wasn't the better card by far.

Good point. thumb.gif
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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

Dargon, with all due respect, you need to be a little more fair in your assessments.

Nobody here can argue how great the 7970 is. As a former owner with a 1285 MHz overclock, I agree.

But looking at the chart you posted, the 780 is 14% faster than the 380x. You call that closing the gap and catching the 780.

The 380x is 18% faster than the 770. You call that as making the 770/680 no longer relevant.

A difference of 4% makes one card legendary and one card irrelevant. That doesn't really make sense.

Like I said, nobody can argue the 7970 wasn't the better card by far.

There are some benchmarks where the 7970 easily beat the 780, using the most recent games like Star Wars Battlefront, when I say "closing the gap" I mean that while time passes the relative performance between Kepler and Tahiti is actually getting closer in favor of Tahiti and giving it enough time Tahiti should beat Kepler if the trend continues.

Also the difference between the 770 and the 7970 isn't 4%, it's more like 20% as shown in this graph, also the difference between a HD 7970 with very conservative stock clock of 1030MHz and the GTX 780 is only 10%, another reason I call that 10% as "Closing the gap" is because Tahiti is a whole Generation older launched in January / 9 / 2012 and wasn't even competing against Kepler, Kepler was a good 45% faster when it first came out putting Tahiti to its knees, but as I said before, in several new games like Star Wars Battlefront Tahiti is not only closing the gap but surpassing it.

BTW, History have shown that 5% extra performance can go a long way with consumers willing to pay premium for it, it's called Titan.
Edited by Dargonplay - 2/26/16 at 1:39pm
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