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[TNW] Western Digital disks most likely to fail - Page 18

post #171 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I don't really know what folks are talking about when this is so much worst than their own environment - if you own even a single HDD and it's running, try putting your hand on the case. Feel that? Vibrations.

Not all drives produce the same magnitude of vibrations.

Most of my 2.5" are nearly imperceptible in noise or vibration; even several of them in the same enclosure don't produce any perceptible noise or movement. Same goes for my Hitachi and most of my single platter Seagate 3.5" drives, but even a single one of my Samsungs (which are otherwise excellent) will vibrate virtually any case they are mounted in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

Don't get me wrong - of course vibrations reduce life, and harmonic hum is a dangerous enemy, but BB's scenario doesn't look as bad to me as is being suggested.

Agreed.
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post #172 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by claes View Post

I totally agree but want to point that I've posted three such studies. There's casual observation and then there's cautioned reason - I personally blame people for not reading the actual article.

I'm not referring to your posts. I'm referring to the inevitable "don't buy Seagate, backblaze says so" reasoning. I've already heard it from my girlfriend when mentioning buying an external hard drive. When I asked her where she got the idea from she referred to an article that cited Backblaze. It's irritating to see fallacious logic like that. It's even more irritating to see the Media promote stupidity for the sake of page hits. Journalism used to appeal to idealists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhuey5 View Post

Not many regular users use anti-vibration who use common cases ... I appreciate backblaze data and even more with their youtube shares about their cases
some of user use certain cases or add-ons to cut vibrations or direct air flow to keep drives cool then we could look at certain point in time when they put that case into service
perhaps they should put case type as part of their data to show how each iteration helps or hinders HDD life

One, running studies isn't Backblaze's business. It would actualy negatively impact it. Backblaze merely shared their reports on internal company information regarding their hardware. Which I am thankful for.

Two, it doesn't matter what one user or another one runs. The point is that Backblaze's data is naturally biased towards Backblaze's use case scenario. It is entirely possible that Seagate drives may actually have the longest life in ideal scenarios. There is simply no way of knowing or deducing it by just using Backblaze's reports... Yet many will assume that because Backblaze's data is based on "real life scenarios" it can be applied as a blanket to make a judgement on all drives produced by a manufacturer for all possible scenarios. I detest that kind of intellectual dishonest, or in most cases, ignorance.
Quote:
Somewhere the data approaches the point where its just the batch of drives that fails which mfr is better or not but they don't correlate that with hdd mfr evolution
ie: this batch was made in thailand n this batch was made in china for a given mfr, each batch had their respective quality n hopefully over time china quality was improving while thailand was shutdown

I just like a reliable HDD I don't like running into drives that a lot of ppl report defectiveness ... it doesn't come up when buying at amazon or newegg
its like you have to check another website to see ones shopping drive is having a class action lawsuit

in our server room yes we hit a bad batch of enterprise drives and thats when we complain to our source sometimes we change sources because maybe they handle the shipping of the drives better than the other or better customer service that rebates us for our drives

sure ppl have to take a risk when buying their drive of choice
ie: seagate 13% failure rate and has a great price and source shipping unknow handling
the risk is whether or not the statistics is spot on or the luck of the draw one received a drive that's runs better than its failure rate
for backblaze they must buy by the crate of drives all nicely packed compared to regular users who maybe at the mercy of amazon\newegg\other item pickers who might mishandle the drives they are going to ship

Backblaze procures their drives through dozens of different means. They covered some of them thoroughly in their blog. Like I said, it's admirable to see such decisive cost-cutting measures. Again, you cannot take too many implications and conclusions out of Backblaze's data. More studies are needed for sure. Unfortunately most of those studies are financied by HDD manufacturers themselves, meaning these studies will be company property and not available for the public to read.
Edited by HanSomPa - 2/23/16 at 11:07am
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post #173 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

I'm not referring to your posts. I'm referring to the inevitable "don't buy Seagate, backblaze says so" reasoning. I've already heard it from my girlfriend when mentioning buying an external hard drive. When I asked her where she got the idea from she referred to an article that cited Backblaze. It's irritating to see fallacious logic like that. It's even more irritating to see the Media promote stupidity for the sake of page hits. Journalism used to appeal to idealists.
One, running studies isn't Backblaze's business. It would actualy negatively impact it. Backblaze merely shared their reports on internal company information regarding their hardware. Which I am thankful for.

Two, it doesn't matter what one user or another one runs. The point is that Backblaze's data is naturally biased towards Backblaze's use case scenario. It is entirely possible that Seagate drives may actually have the longest life in ideal scenarios. There is simply no way of knowing or deducing it by just using Backblaze's reports... Yet many will assume that because Backblaze's data is based on "real life scenarios" it can be applied as a blanket to make a judgement on all drives produced by a manufacturer for all possible scenarios. I detest that kind of intellectual dishonest, or in most cases, ignorance.
Backblaze procures their drives through dozens of different means. They covered some of them thoroughly in their blog. Like I said, it's admirable to see such decisive cost-cutting measures. Again, you cannot take too many implications and conclusions out of Backblaze's data. More studies are needed for sure. Unfortunately most of those studies are financied by HDD manufacturers themselves, meaning these studies will be company property and not available for the public to read.

wish they try cooling their data center w nitrogen i did't see any fans in the pod case
you can do everything to prolong the life of the drive but it still left to its own devices to survive thus we're left with mfr quality
(i think those plastic rails should be made of those anti-vib silicon rubber)

it great they shared a bit of innovation ... enterprise case designs been stagnant for 20 yrs
always left to those who build their data centers to tackle issues

the funny thing the studies haven't lead to better drives and now their meeting up with SSD n other technologies
the slow extinction
Edited by hhuey5 - 2/23/16 at 11:22am
post #174 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Not all drives produce the same magnitude of vibrations.

Most of my 2.5" are nearly imperceptible in noise or vibration; even several of them in the same enclosure don't produce any perceptible noise or movement. Same goes for my Hitachi and most of my single platter Seagate 3.5" drives, but even a single one of my Samsungs (which are otherwise excellent) will vibrate virtually any case they are mounted in.
Agreed.

yeah I had a drive that made weird noises yet it never died a quick death; it lasted longer than I expected
post #175 of 223
Never had one problem with any of my Western Digital drives. However both of my Samsung Spinpoint drives developed a strange pulsating noise after a few years.
post #176 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhuey5 View Post

the funny thing the studies haven't lead to better drives and now their meeting up with SSD n other technologies
the slow extinction

. Better Hard Drives are being made all the time. The development is slow, but there have been consistent improvements in Hard Drive technology.
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post #177 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

. Better Hard Drives are being made all the time. The development is slow, but there have been consistent improvements in Hard Drive technology.

haven't notice the improvements

anti-drop protection
other writing pattern to increase density
using nitrogen
ibm using glass until oil drops ruin the drive
pata to sata
different platter materials
plastic anti-vib
silicon anti-vib
mfr relocating plants to other countries

the longevity n reliability still in question

yet in recent years SSD has had rapid growth n development
sure hdd will still be around for the next 20 yrs
not doubting that
post #178 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

Never had one problem with any of my Western Digital drives. However both of my Samsung Spinpoint drives developed a strange pulsating noise after a few years.

the mech arm making noise isn't much to worry about unless one day the arm stops working
I had drives make noise and last longer than newer drives n then I had others that died

whatever the sign the drive makes that its failing its time to evacuate n replace
post #179 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhuey5 View Post

the mech arm making noise isn't much to worry about unless one day the arm stops working
I had drives make noise and last longer than newer drives n then I had others that died

whatever the sign the drive makes that its failing its time to evacuate n replace

I mean it sounds like the bearing is making a metallic sound as it spins.
post #180 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by aweir View Post

I mean it sounds like the bearing is making a metallic sound as it spins.

yeah I had those drives too
when they speed up or slow down I hear the bearings
while running their relatively quiet or noisy like an air craft
we moved those computers to the server room n remote desktop
some of us couldn't stand the noise
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