Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Anand] Ashes of the Singularity Revisited: A Beta Look at DirectX 12 & Asynchronous Shading
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Anand] Ashes of the Singularity Revisited: A Beta Look at DirectX 12 & Asynchronous Shading - Page 11

post #101 of 1175
i guess nvidia is silent on this issue because they are having internal communication issues again. last time it was 970 and now async. their Engineering team and pr team is not in "sync" biggrin.gif
post #102 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by EightDee8D View Post

i guess nvidia is silent on this issue because they are having internal communication issues again. last time it was 970 and now async. their Engineering team and pr team is not in "sync" biggrin.gif

NVIDIA were silent 6 months ago and have been since. In that time they've enabled Asynchronous compute, silently, in their driver. The thing is, however, what NVIDIA and Microsoft call "Asynchronous Compute" is not how AMD calls it or implemented it under Mantle.

For NVIDIA and Microsoft, Asynchronous compute is defined the same way as it is defined in computer science. It means that there is no defined order of execution between jobs in the same batch.

AMD take it a step further. For AMD, Asynchronous compute adds both concurrent and parallel execution of jobs. This is why AMD gains more performance. AMDs added hardware redundancy allows them to perform Asynchronous compute + graphics. Meaning that both Graphics and Compute jobs can be executed in parallel as well as concurrently.

So NVIDIA do have Asynchronous compute enabled in their driver, as Kollock stated, they just don't or can't take advantage of it. That's precisely what I had predicted almost 6 months ago.
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
post #103 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

Its all about the money $$$$$. Not about whats best for gaming. Right now AMD is broke and indebted, they owe $2 Billion. Nvidia took most of the Market with their 80% slice of it. Nvidia has $$$$$.

You think Devs will do whats best for gaming? While catering to the smaller market? lachen.gif

Nvidia will keep pulling the same slick tricks they always have and give Devs $$$ reasons to keep them on top. AMD can buy a couple games but Nvidia can buy the whole table.

Do you know who has much deeper pockets than Nvidia? I'll give you a hint: the company that makes DirectX 12 and the XBone, also Sony has 8 ACEs in the PS4 (which is where the design for Hawaii came from) so I can guarantee you that Async Compute will be used.
post #104 of 1175
Soo looking at Async Compute. AMD are rocking the king of the hill for performance, and we know that in the next year or 2, there will be a good dozen AAA titles released with Async Compute.
Clearly there is something not quite right with Maxwell otherwise we would see Nvidia looking better with Anyc Compute on, even marginally better, not worse.

Pascal is around the corner and i think we can all agree, there will be some for of Anyc compute from launch to try and put AMD in second again, even if it is just in the 1 or 2 DX12 instances we have (they already own DX11 so why bother with that).

My questions is, will Anyc compute degrade Pascals DX11 performance and put it alot closer to the AMD cards or is it possible to build in a switch to be able to switch to "single thread mode" for DX 11 titles?

Im not that clued up on the architecture etc so do not know if its possible or not.

However, a bit of speculation here....
If they cannot just turn parallel processing(Async) on and off like a switch and get maximum performance in either mode (ie if one mode gets hampered by the other) then i do think we will be seeing a possibly stagnant Non-Async titles improvements from Pascal but big gains in Async titles or would they skip Async for Pascal and focus on more "single threaded" DX 11 performance?

Basically what im saying, is unless they can figure out how to switch between the 2 without hampering performance, i think we may see either a very close Async battle between Polaris and Pascal, or we may see Pascal completely own Non-Async titles, while Polaris dominate in Async titles
Edited by SystemTech - 2/24/16 at 11:08pm
   
Cores Galore
(16 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-6700HQ GTX 1070 8GB, GPU AMP Waiting for BIG Vega 16GB 2667mhz Alienware Crucial BX100 1TB 
Hard DriveMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB Acer XR341CK 34" 3440x1440 @ 85hz awesomness Stock 1920x1080 Logitech G410 Atlas Spectrum 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G700S Roccat Taito Logitech G930 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsHard Drive
i7-4700QM Alienware M14X Nvidia Geforce GTX 765M Samsung Evo 850 mSATA 256 GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorMonitor
Crucial BX100 1TB Windows 10 Acer XR341CK Stock 14" 1920x1080 IPS 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Logitech G410 Atlas Spectrum Stock Alienware 180W Logitech G700S Roccat MTW 
AudioAudio
Logitech G930 Audio Technica ATH-M50X 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 3960X Rampage IV Extreme Black Edition MSI R9 390X Gaming 32GB Corsair Vengence 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial MX200 240GB 1TB Crucial BX100 Custom WC Loop Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Acer P243W Acer P243W Logitech G510S Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
None rght now Logitech G500S Roccat Taito MTW Logitech G930 
  hide details  
Reply
   
Cores Galore
(16 items)
 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
i7-6700HQ GTX 1070 8GB, GPU AMP Waiting for BIG Vega 16GB 2667mhz Alienware Crucial BX100 1TB 
Hard DriveMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB Acer XR341CK 34" 3440x1440 @ 85hz awesomness Stock 1920x1080 Logitech G410 Atlas Spectrum 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Logitech G700S Roccat Taito Logitech G930 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsHard Drive
i7-4700QM Alienware M14X Nvidia Geforce GTX 765M Samsung Evo 850 mSATA 256 GB 
Hard DriveOSMonitorMonitor
Crucial BX100 1TB Windows 10 Acer XR341CK Stock 14" 1920x1080 IPS 
KeyboardPowerMouseMouse Pad
Logitech G410 Atlas Spectrum Stock Alienware 180W Logitech G700S Roccat MTW 
AudioAudio
Logitech G930 Audio Technica ATH-M50X 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
I7 3960X Rampage IV Extreme Black Edition MSI R9 390X Gaming 32GB Corsair Vengence 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial MX200 240GB 1TB Crucial BX100 Custom WC Loop Windows 10 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Acer P243W Acer P243W Logitech G510S Corsair AX850 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
None rght now Logitech G500S Roccat Taito MTW Logitech G930 
  hide details  
Reply
post #105 of 1175
DX11 performance are really low for AMD ???
Do they actually know that's the main current API ???
post #106 of 1175
Can someone please explain me why AMD cant/dont want to fix the DX11 flaws they have?
AMD
(13 items)
 
Intel
(7 items)
 
Home Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 Asus M5A99FX Pro MSI Radeon R9-280x MSI Radeon R9-280x 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
  hide details  
Reply
AMD
(13 items)
 
Intel
(7 items)
 
Home Server
(11 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD FX-8350 Asus M5A99FX Pro MSI Radeon R9-280x MSI Radeon R9-280x 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial Ballistics 8GB DDR3 Cruical MX100 128GB SSD Samsung DVD-RW Cooler Master Hyper Evo 212 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Technical Preview Philips 55PFS6909/12 Logitech MX3200 Chieftec 750W 
Mouse
Khaos Limited Edition 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4200U ACER BA50 AMD HD8750M 4GB DDR3 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
750GB HDD Windows 10 TP 15,6" 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
AMD Opteron 2373EE AMD Opteron 2373EE Dell Socket Fr5 XGI® Z9s with 32MB DDRII VRAM 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
32GB DDRII ECC 1TB HDD 7200rpm N/A Passive 
OSPowerCase
Ubuntu Server 600W Dell PowerEdge CS24-NV7 
  hide details  
Reply
post #107 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Can someone please explain me why AMD cant/dont want to fix the DX11 flaws they have?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1592431/anand-ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-a-beta-look-at-directx-12-asynchronous-shading/70#post_24930629
post #108 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRabbit View Post

Can someone please explain me why AMD cant/dont want to fix the DX11 flaws they have?

For the same reason that Nvidia can't fix the Async Compute flaws they have with Maxwell. It's not a driver issue, it's a fundamental architectural issue. Mahigan describes the situation in this thread and others.

That said, AMD is doing *something* about DX11, which is why we see Tahiti and Hawaii punching above their launch weight in DX11 benchmarks today.
Edited by infranoia - 2/24/16 at 11:36pm
Parasite
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4770K @ 4.7GHz Z87 MPOWER (MS-7818) Sapphire Radeon 290x @1100/1500 EVGA 1080Ti SC2 Hybrid 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
G.SKILL 2133 Samsung 850 Pro Caviar Black Corsair H100 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair HG10 Corsair H60 Windows 7 x64 Sony XBR65X850B 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CMSTORM Quickfire XT Corsair AX1200i Antec P280 Logitec G700 
Mouse PadAudio
Black, came with my NeXTcube 25 years ago. Sound Blaster Recon 3D PCIe 
  hide details  
Reply
Parasite
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 4770K @ 4.7GHz Z87 MPOWER (MS-7818) Sapphire Radeon 290x @1100/1500 EVGA 1080Ti SC2 Hybrid 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
G.SKILL 2133 Samsung 850 Pro Caviar Black Corsair H100 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Corsair HG10 Corsair H60 Windows 7 x64 Sony XBR65X850B 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CMSTORM Quickfire XT Corsair AX1200i Antec P280 Logitec G700 
Mouse PadAudio
Black, came with my NeXTcube 25 years ago. Sound Blaster Recon 3D PCIe 
  hide details  
Reply
post #109 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivon View Post

DX11 performance are really low for AMD ???
Do they actually know that's the main current API ???

AMD haven't bothered optimizing DX11 for Ashes of the Singularity as it would be a pretty complicated affair to try and do so and gains would be quite low.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1592431/anand-ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-a-beta-look-at-directx-12-asynchronous-shading/60#post_24930629
http://www.overclock.net/t/1592431/anand-ashes-of-the-singularity-revisited-a-beta-look-at-directx-12-asynchronous-shading/60#post_24930667

Sources: http://gpuopen.com/performance-tweets-series-command-lists/
https://www.amd.com/Documents/GCN_Architecture_whitepaper.pdf
http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/06/2620_final.pdf
And the latest AMD YouTube Polaris video where the engineer mentions that they increased the Command Buffer size for better single thread performance.
Edited by Mahigan - 2/24/16 at 11:54pm
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
Kn0wledge
(20 items)
 
Pati3nce
(14 items)
 
Wisd0m
(10 items)
 
Reply
post #110 of 1175
Really clever from their part knowing that there is no DX12 game available and just DX11 only games wink.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Software News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Anand] Ashes of the Singularity Revisited: A Beta Look at DirectX 12 & Asynchronous Shading