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[Anand] Ashes of the Singularity Revisited: A Beta Look at DirectX 12 & Asynchronous Shading - Page 19

post #181 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post

computerbase have 390X equal to 980Ti while Fury X is 25% faster.

So despite using async compute, Fury X is not scaling well over 390X. AMD still have work to do on optimizing for GCN3.

edit: guru3d test with crazy settings and things are a little crazy headscratch.gif

Maybe dx12 problems and not just the settings hitting nvidia hardware way harder.

I think it could be a limitation due to the Fury's 4G of frame buffer running out, but without seeing a vram usage test its hard to say. With that said I wouldn't rule out an architectural issue.
post #182 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post

computerbase have 390X equal to 980Ti while Fury X is 25% faster.

So despite using async compute, Fury X is not scaling well over 390X. AMD still have work to do on optimizing for GCN3.

edit: guru3d test with crazy settings and things are a little crazy headscratch.gif



Maybe dx12 problems and not just the settings hitting nvidia hardware way harder.

R7 370 performing better than R9 380X is a little crazy indeed!wth.gif
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post #183 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

Or they want a system that can play other settings than 720P and low textures

This might surprise you, but even 6 year old mid range ATI 5770 can do better than that smile.gif

So no, a 500 dollar PC can do VERY good. Above consoles even, though it has the inherent advantages of a PC (which are awesome).

And upgrading a PC with that much money? A very good choice.
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post #184 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcharo View Post

This might surprise you, but even 6 year old mid range ATI 5770 can do better than that smile.gif

So no, a 500 dollar PC can do VERY good. Above consoles even, though it has the inherent advantages of a PC (which are awesome).

And upgrading a PC with that much money? A very good choice.

Due to the industry standard of platform parody the time frame of needing to upgrade to play the latest game is becoming more and more extended.
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post #185 of 1175
The 7970 struggles a lot, oh yeah:



30% faster than 960, 13% slower than the 780.
post #186 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

You think Devs will do whats best for gaming? While catering to the smaller market? lachen.gif
.
Xbox one and PC , sharing similar CPU and GPU architecture, and vram system.aswell same API for graphics will make a big difference for them since DX12 might save them time working in one single game port
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

And AMD are competitive, with their cards beating, all of their intended NVIDIA price competitors under DX11 save for the Fury-X vs GTX 980 Ti.
https://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/reviews/ASUS/GTX_980_Ti_Matrix/23.html

In recent DX11 titles, AMD graphics cards have been quite surprising.

What DX12 does is allow for:

390 > GTX 970 by a long shot instead of a little
390X > GTX 980
Fury uncontested
Fury-X = GTX 980 Ti
TitanX uncontested

What Async compute allows for is:

390 > GTX 980
390x = GTX 980 Ti
TitanX
Fury uncontested
Fury-X uncontested.

So really, DX11 or DX12 w/wo Async doesn't change AMDs price competition figures for the worse. It only makes AMD GCN that much better.
The r9 Nano would be an interesting example which therically with Fury X clocks can get 100% performance and while being cheaper under DX11 and DX12 couldnt be matched
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

I dont trust Oxide. Too much close connections to AMD and they way they have been boasting AMD with DX12 ever since we saw the first benchmarks.
Then any game dev that uses Nvidia logo and gameworks should not be trusted since they use Nvidia software that is already biased just to cripple the competitor the.meanwhile this game developer can work with nvidia to try to fix their faults wink.gif
Quote:
ExtremeTech Art (Click to show)
Is Ashes of the Singularity biased?
Ashes of the Singularity is the first DX12 game on the market, and the performance delta between AMD and Nvidia is going to court controversy from fans of both companies. We won’t know if its performance results are typical until we see more games in market. But is the game intrinsically biased to favor AMD? I think not — for multiple interlocking reasons.

First, there’s the fact that Oxide shares its engine source code with both AMD and Nvidia and has invited both companies to both see and suggest changes for most of the time Ashes has been in development. The company’s Reviewer’s Guide includes the following:

[W]e have created a special branch where not only can vendors see our source code, but they can even submit proposed changes. That is, if they want to suggest a change our branch gives them permission to do so…

This branch is synchronized directly from our main branch so it’s usually less than a week from our very latest internal main software development branch. IHVs are free to make their own builds, or test the intermediate drops that we give our QA.

Oxide also addresses the question of whether or not it optimizes for specific engines or graphics architectures directly.

Oxide primarily optimizes at an algorithmic level, not for any specific hardware. We also take care to avoid the proverbial known “glass jaws” which every hardware has. However, we do not write our code or tune for any specific GPU in mind. We find this is simply too time consuming, and we must run on a wide variety of GPUs. We believe our code is very typical of a reasonably optimized PC game.

We reached out to Dan Baker of Oxide regarding the decision to turn asynchronous compute on by default for both companies and were told the following:

“Async compute is enabled by default for all GPUs. We do not want to influence testing results by having different default setting by IHV, we recommend testing both ways, with and without async compute enabled. Oxide will choose the fastest method to default based on what is available to the public at ship time.”

Second, we know that asynchronous compute takes advantages of hardware capabilities AMD has been building into its GPUs for a very long time. The HD 7970 was AMD’s first card with an asynchronous compute engine and it launched in 2012. You could even argue that devoting die space and engineering effort to a feature that wouldn’t be useful for four years was a bad idea, not a good one. AMD has consistently said that some of the benefits of older cards would appear in DX12, and that appears to be what’s happening.

Asynchronous computing is not itself part of the DX12 specification, but it’s one method of implementing a DirectX 12 multi-engine. Multi-engines are explicitly part of the DX12 specification. How these engines are implemented may well impact relative performance between AMD and Nvidia, but they’re one of the advantages to using DX12 as compared with previous APIs.

AMD-vs-NV.png
Third, every bit of independent research on this topic has confirmed that AMD and Nvidia have profoundly different asynchronous compute capabilities. Nvidia’s own slides illustrate this as well. Nvidia cards cannot handle asynchronous workloads the way that AMD’s can, and the differences between how the two cards function when presented with these tasks can’t be bridged with a few quick driver optimizations or code tweaks. Beyond3D forum member and GPU programmer Ext3h has written a guide to the differences between the two platforms — it’s a work-in-progress, but it contains a significant amount of useful information.

Fourth, Nvidia PR has been silent on this topic. Questions about Maxwell and asynchronous compute have been bubbling for months; we’ve requested additional information on several occasions. Nvidia is historically quick to respond to either incorrect information or misunderstandings, often by making highly placed engineers or company personnel available for interview. The company has a well-deserved reputation for being proactive in these matters, but we’ve heard nothing through official channels.

Fifth and finally, we know that AMD GPUs have always had enormous GPU compute capabilities. Those capabilities haven’t always been displayed to their best advantage for a variety of reasons, but they’ve always existed, waiting to be tapped. When Nvidia designed Maxwell, it prioritized rendering performance — there’s a reason why the company’s highest-end Tesla SKUs are still based on Kepler (aka the GTX 780 Ti / Titan Black).

It’s fair to say that the Nitrous Engine’s design runs better on AMD hardware — but there’s no proof that the engine was designed to disadvantage Nvidia hardware, or to prevent Nvidia cards from executing workloads effectively.

Edited by PontiacGTX - 2/25/16 at 10:28am
post #187 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenland View Post

The 7970 struggles a lot, oh yeah:



30% faster than 960, 13% slower than the 780.

15-20% faster than GTX 960 (source) wink.gif
And that doesnt show anything. Again, there are a growing number of games where a 7970 or even 290 would struggle today at acceptable frame rates and settings at 1440p. Obviously 290 would do ok in the majority of the games in 1080p but I wouldnt even be happy with a 1080p display today
post #188 of 1175

confused.gifconfused.gifWhy the heck did Anand decide to call it RTG instead of AMD???

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post #189 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

15-20% faster than GTX 960 (source) wink.gif
And that doesnt show anything. Again, there are a growing number of games where a 7970 or even 290 would struggle today at acceptable frame rates and settings at 1440p. Obviously 290 would do ok in the majority of the games in 1080p but I wouldnt even be happy with a 1080p display today

And honestly the majority of games today are not worth an install either way... mostly just ... well drivel.
The 280X does great at 1080P and decently at 1440P. Above a console visually with better frame rate.
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post #190 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by james8 View Post

confused.gifconfused.gif Why the heck did Anand decide to call it RTG instead of AMD???

Yeah that confused me. I still don't know what RTG means
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