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[Anand] Ashes of the Singularity Revisited: A Beta Look at DirectX 12 & Asynchronous Shading - Page 5

post #41 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragneel View Post


Really? I'm not here to argue with anyone, just wanted to say that seemed pretty neat to me. I mean, I am only using a 280(non-X) with a 1080p screen and I still manage to have fun but meh.

 

I'm with you on that. I have no intention to upgrade to 4K at the moment. Its still early days as far as I'm concerned. 1080p is good enough for right now and the near future.

post #42 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega X View Post

I'm with you on that. I have no intention to upgrade to 4K at the moment. Its still early days as far as I'm concerned. 1080p is good enough for right now and the near future.

Hmm... well... mmm...
post #43 of 1175
From a technical standpoint, the most interesting thing is that the gain at 4k - AMD's advantage increases at 4k, rather than decreases.

As the Anandtech article hints, this may be because of unused shader capacity. It's a sign that the Fury X is being bottlenecked somewhere - probably the Geometry. It looks like the AMD team has work they have to do on Polaris if they want this addressed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philhalo66 View Post

interesting. I wonder why AMD has such a big lead on the async bench


So far, the evidence suggests very heavily that Mahigan's hypothesis that Nvidia GPUs are not capable of simultaneous async compute and async graphics is correct. By contrast, the front end of AMD GPUs, particularly Hawaii and Fiji appear capable of doing so (due to the ACEs), which is why they see gains on DX12, while Nvidia GPUs don't. By contrast, Nvidia's better DX11 drivers do lead to better performance there.

Nobody has been able to provide a competing hypothesis, nor the data to back it up. Mahigan may very well be right that Pascal too will not support Async. It may very well have to wait for Volta.

This quote is interesting:
Quote:
Update 02/24: NVIDIA sent a note over this afternoon letting us know that asynchornous shading is not enabled in their current drivers, hence the performance we are seeing here. Unfortunately they are not providing an ETA for when this feature will be enabled.

Why wouldn't they enable it? My gut feel is that this is face-saving attempt and that they cannot for technical reasons. Hint: It probably will be never because it is not a driver issue - it is a hardware issue.

The real question is, will they have cards out that can do it (Volta?) before DX12 becomes more commonplace? I suspect the answer might be yes, but there have been several high profile announcements of games with DX12. Strictly from a consumer standpoint, I am hoping the answer is no and that the current 80-20 marketshare becomes 50-50. A monopoly is a loss no matter how you slice it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

the test was done with a
Intel Core i7-4960X @ 4.2GHz

but some benchmark shows that the game couldnt scale better with more than 4 cores

In that case, the ideal gaming platform would be something like a 4790K or a 6700K. Haswell E would not be good in that regard because six cores are around 200 MHz or so slower. We need this test repeated with a 4.9 GHz 4790K or at least a 4.6 GHz or so 6700K. Ideal would be a highly binned 6700K (say 4.8 GHz) with fast RAM >3200 MHz to eliminate all CPU bottlenecks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

How does the Fury have negative improvement with async at 1080p?

Looks like it is a CPU bottleneck to me. See my response to Pontiac.


Edit:
A second hypothesis: It may be some inherent bottleneck within the Fury X GPU.

I will note that right up to 4k, the Fury X makes pretty impressive relative gains to the Nvidia GPUs.
80322.png

I think that something is preventing the shaders from reaching their full potential; perhaps the poor geometry processors or the cache, as Mahigan once suggested.

For a similar reason, the Fury X doesn't see 45% more performance, despite having 45% more shader.


The only way to tell would be to repeat this whole experiment with a fast enough CPU that won't bottleneck.
Edited by CrazyElf - 2/24/16 at 4:46pm
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post #44 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Looks like it is a CPU bottleneck to me. See my response to Pontiac.

Not seeing how a CPU bottleneck explains a 10% gain with async compute at 1440p and a -2% gain at 1080p, especially when the 290X is 9% gain in both.
post #45 of 1175
Although done with only 2 different GPU's, to me this is the more interesting news/benchmark:

explicit-multi-gpu-1080h-ashes-bench.png
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post #46 of 1175
Hmm might buy a polaris instead of pascal. My 980ti is looking horrible and am on 1440p.
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post #47 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrockh View Post

For example, have you tried the game? how is it?
What implication will DX12 have on hardware / software? Advantages / Disadvantages of this tech.

The game is pretty fun if you ask me. It's certainly one of the few games I've bought and actually enjoyed playing in the past 6 months. So far though I'm having a tough time getting passed the 'Tough' AI setting haha. The AI actually is pretty good as well, and performance is wonderful and looks great on my PG278Q and my Acer Predator 27" with G-SYNC. As far as DX 12 goes I'm not seeing much CPU usage at 1440p. Usually hovers around 50% or below on my 4790k @ 4.6, but the GPU gets a workout.

Here's my benchmark on 1440p @ Crazy settings. 4790k @ 4.6, Titan X @ 1439 MHz / 7700 MHz

post #48 of 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

This quote is interesting:
Why wouldn't they enable it? My gut feel is that this is face-saving attempt and that they cannot for technical reasons. Hint: It probably will be never because it is not a driver issue - it is a hardware issue.

Literally pure speculation. Why wouldn't they release it?

One reason, other than it just not being ready (have you written a driver for this before?), comes down to time and money, that simple.

AoS is one title, in early beta, featuring one aspect of DX 12. Nvidia isn't going to sink developer and engineer time into pushing out something ahead, just to quell a rabid fan-base around one small title. It, from a business perspective, is a Hell of a lot better utilization of resources to do it in a way that fits with the rest of the development schedule. A person would be insane to think Nvidia isn't, and hasn't, actively been working on DX 12 drivers for awhile now. There is no reason to break from that progress to address this one standing issue.

To say they can't do it at all, because it isn't out yet, that is just short sighted to the extreme.

EDIT:

The other consideration is how prevalent is ASC going to be in DX 12 titles across the board? I don't think anyone has the answer to that yet.

EDIT 2:

As stated by another; I am ready to see DX 12 in other titles and what they are doing. At this point Oxide is just getting massive free marketing for their game by outlets beating a dead horse. This issue has been hashed and re-hashed so many times now.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 2/24/16 at 5:15pm
    
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post #49 of 1175
For the reference, R9 390 via Directx 12 is faster than Fury X is via Directx 11 while Nano is next to GTX 980 in Directx 11 whereas it is ahead of GTX 980 Ti by 10% in Directx 12. Makes you wonder...
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post #50 of 1175
Yeah, makes you wonder why AMD's DX11 drivers are such a disaster, and what the competitive landscape would have looked like if they had bothered to try to optimize them better a year or so ago.
Edited by Forceman - 2/24/16 at 5:28pm
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