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[DS] Gabe Newell Fires Dota 2 Host During Live Tournament. Calls Host 'An Ass'. - Page 9

post #81 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Please.

There is a massive difference between "being yourself" and the things he was saying. He is a grown adult, and knows there is a time and place for his type of language. It is called being a responsible, professional, employee.

I would fire any of my employees I hear talking that way while on my clock with customers present.

Not when he has presented this character of himself in seemingly everything he's done... how could your employees possibly be comparable to this... your employees are hired to act professionally... this guy was hired for his out of line humor... it's comparable to hire an actor.. like if you hire Tom Green, wth do you think you're gonna get???
post #82 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Please.

There is a massive difference between "being yourself" and the things he was saying. He is a grown adult, and knows there is a time and place for his type of language. It is called being a responsible, professional, employee.

I would fire any of my employees I hear talking that way while on my clock with customers present.

If I am not mistaken he has done the commentating before and acted just like he did this past time. So to me if someone says be yourself and yourself is acting like he does then it is someones fault up stairs and just the complete breakdown of communication.
post #83 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezahp View Post


You clearly aren't. You judge situations without even fully knowing details and facts, good job. James has pretty much said that he was more than fine if Valve told him he was not the type of host they wanted and terminated him. It is just the way in which they did it and handled things.

Also, why should he not release a statement? He has a lot of followers and a big fan base despite what you may think. He wanted to provide a explanation of his termination to his followers and that he wouldn't be hosting the rest of the Shanghai major.

edit: he even does acknowledge and admit some of the mistakes he made and may have gone a little overboard

 

I read all 17 pages of his doc, watched the video, and have seen his other work in TI, Quake and others.. James put Valve in the position he did, and they nailed him for it (rightly so).  If you or I know the direction Valve is trying to take their esports, then we can be pretty sure any caster they've hired also knows that. 

While they might have hired James for his crass humor and "personality" they didn't hire him to do what he did.  Valve is trying to get into the living room, they can't do that with the jokes he was making.  So Valve had to distance themselves, and GabeN made the decision to terminate him and it's his company and his right.  Personally, if I were GabeN I would have had him pulled off after the wheelchair joke.

He was hired to cast Dota2, not be a comedian.  There might be a little backlash from his bashing of the ESPN2 gig, but you can't bite the hand that feeds and not expect to get slapped.  Same reason you don't call out your supervisor for being lazy, ignorant, and never available on your performance review.  Just sets you up to get the hammer; as they have to try to shift blame back on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1990 View Post


If I am not mistaken he has done the commentating before and acted just like he did this past time. So to me if someone says be yourself and yourself is acting like he does then it is someones fault up stairs and just the complete breakdown of communication.

 

When they say "be yourself" the words "within reason" are always implied.

 


Edited by Rickles - 2/28/16 at 9:49pm
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post #84 of 194
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Originally Posted by defhed View Post

Not when he has presented this character of himself in seemingly everything he's done... how could your employees possibly be comparable to this... your employees are hired to act professionally... this guy was hired for his out of line humor... it's comparable to hire an actor.. like if you hire Tom Green, wth do you think you're gonna get???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1990 View Post

If I am not mistaken he has done the commentating before and acted just like he did this past time. So to me if someone says be yourself and yourself is acting like he does then it is someones fault up stairs and just the complete breakdown of communication.

You are only driving my point home further.

He has done it in the past, which doesn't make it OK, and had (obviously) been spoken to. He continued to do it, and was canned.

I assure you he wasn't hired to sit on a live stream at a major event and be excessively vulgar.
    
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post #85 of 194
Well like I said, my whole point was not to justify if it was right in firing him or not. That is their decision if they feel like he is right for them in which he also understands. It is the MANNER in which Gaben decided to do so. While it is very common for employees to defame companies since it happens all the time, it is unprofessional and inappropriate for a company or CEO to do so. Especially for a CEO of a multi-billion dollar company. Companies and especially CEO's are supposed to and should be held to a much higher standard. He only said a few words calling James an ass but those few words mean a lot and have a lot of impact. Almost every company will mention only your job title, dates and salary. So, Valve and Gaben pretty much want Dota 2 and esports to be considered as a real sport? You don't see sports team owners releasing statements on reddit badmouthing their players and calling them names when sports players do even far more worse things like drugs, violent criminal charges, etc. Well with sports players it might be a little different but the same goes for employees of sports organizations.
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post #86 of 194
I don't particularly like this guy, but this is double fail on Valve's part. And very unprofessional by Gaben, funny that it is what they were looking for in him.
post #87 of 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

Sure, it goes both ways, but it doesn't make Gabe wrong for firing him.

ACME hires me for a public-facing job. They see on my unsecured Facebook that I am sometimes profane and inappropriate when addressing groups within my interest circles. They hire me anyway. During a press conference or some such, I talk about how how the bellhop at my hotel was a (insert sexist comment here) and that the hotel didn't have enough porn for my liking preventing me from getting off the night before. I then give my talk about the product.

ACME fires me the next day.

Was ACME foolish for hiring me after viewing my Facebook? Yes. Were they right to fire me? Also yes.

Being hired despite his past is not an excuse for the way that he acted. No employment contract that I've ever seen stipulates that the company is entirely responsible for your conduct in perpetuity because they told you to be yourself.

I have never seen this in my employment contract as well. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIYDeath View Post

So basically a caster was fired because he went overboard on his comments and wasn't told to dial it back a bit.
Seems there's two issues here.

1) Lack of proper communication. Gabe is defenitely guilty of this and Valve or the Production company are also at fault here.

2) The host went a little overboard, it should have been common sense that there's things that cannot be said on camera when you're representing a company/product.

I just find this situation sad. A lot of us have probably been in the "I was hired to do X job so I did X job...but the employer actually wanted Y but were being passive agressive with their communication" so to that end I feel bad for the guy...on the other hand...he needed to exercise some common sense. Constant jabs at Chinese censorship given how touchy they are about the subject is a bit of a borderline not good subject, nevermind the wheelchair porn jokes and so forth. He knew the audience but clearly he did not know the employer or the working environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickles View Post

Gabe was 100% justified here, to say otherwise is ignorance.  Valve, and Dota2 by extension, is GabeN's child.  And if you mess with his baby he is likely to smack you for it.  Also, did GabeN personally hire this trashbag for the event or did someone else?  My supervisor can tell me "be yourself" all day at work, that doesn't mean I'm going to open a meeting my VP is sitting in on with a crude joke (or any joke).


"Being yourself" doesn't mean be your self that is shown with your small intimate group of friends, it means they like your personality when you are acting like a professional, host had 0 ability to do that and was fired for it.




1) That's not how the real world works unfortunately.  The CEO is rarely the one to communicate to all employees the company ethics/standards.  Now, someone else might not have been clear enough on them, but I highly doubt it was GabeN.  CEOs of large companies don't always make every single hiring decision.


I read part of the "why I'm not a donkey's rear and really it's GabeN's fault" letter and it was horrible, whiny and probably hurt the guy even more than just accepting the truth, apologizing and moving on.

This part I can totally relate. I work for a multi-national company and it's clearly understood that being yourself should be the company's interpretation and not your own. REP for the both of you. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifth Horseman View Post

The lack of common sense though. Just because a nobody tells you to be yourself doesn't mean you should all things need to be examined in context, I would never find it okay to conduct myself like that in that kind of environment. Perfect example I DJ various party's, wedding's, bachelor you name it I probably have done it. Usually the clients are very clueless when it comes to this stuff. Other than a few music choices for various dances( if wedding) they pretty much just want me to "do my job". Now when somebody tells me to just "do my job" or "do what I normally do". I have to step back and examine the situation, its what makes me good at what I do. If i did what I normally did and played some strip-tease music at a wedding the client and guests would not be happy. When you are put in situations like that you need to use your brain and make good decisions. Just like if arrive to gig and I see there are a lot of children I will make sure to modify my lists to include child appropriate music.

Most entertaining read in this whole thread.

IMHO both parties are at fault here. Valve for the firing and the communication bit and the host for the communication and the "inappropriate remarks" bit.
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post #88 of 194
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Originally Posted by orlfman View Post

gabe did nothing wrong.

Calling someone an ass publicly is not an OK in my book, when it comes to business.
Especially without any detail added; as far as I can tell, the reasoning to use the insult is purely subjective on his part.
And even then, there's more appropriate ways to communicate this.

Valve didn't even communicate on the reasoning for the firing, in a sense. Saying something vaguely inappropriate on a cast doesn't make you an ass. Mildly smack talking the players might do that, but then again, that can be part of a good show, too. If he was truly fired for his show, then power to him.

edit: That said, was there any followup from valve with regard to this? If not, we might just call this debacle "Valve's mystery meat with a caster".

Bottom line: Feelings were hurt, transparency was not had. Not saying valve can't hurt people's feelings, or that they have to be transparent. It's their company after all. But that's just the bottom line.
Edited by Tivan - 2/29/16 at 3:43am
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post #89 of 194
im pretty sure 99% of the audience enjoyed it or didn't mind it
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post #90 of 194
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Originally Posted by dieanotherday View Post

im pretty sure 99% of the audience enjoyed it or didn't mind it
I doubt that, and when you are trying to grow a product you need people who aren't your audience to like it. Also pretty obvious that 100% of GabeNs didn't like it.
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